2018/19 Kieran Dowell

[Brisan123]

For me the problem isn't technical ability, vision or even physicality... the problem is that a player who seems to have all the tools needed in his locker seems to be peripheral in just about nearly every game he plays at almost every level.
I would forfeit the occasional world class goal for a performance that had him involved during the course of the game.

There was a suggestion earlier that he be dropped deeper into midfield and I thought that was a very good idea.
I think experience may teach how to involve himself in games more but maybe he needs to play more to learn this.
I think a loan may again be the correct option.

I’ve seen very little of him but from what I’ve read he seems to drift in and out of games and games games just pass him by

 

[Billy Dean]

A lot of what he did was simple sideways and backwards I agree. It was all one touch stuff and moving the ball quickly which, as I said, was a large part of his play. I didn't count the forward passes but I reckon they accounted for between 30/40% of his overall passes. I don't think that's too bad but I'm sure some stat experts could throw some more light on that. His passing accuracy given the number of forward passes was pretty good too I think.

As for any of the team doing it I'm not too sure. He was obviously given a role to play by the manager and was incredibly disciplined. He actually surprised me in that regard and a lot of what he did off the ball was understated and clearly unnoticed by some. Do I think this is best use of his talents?. No certainly not, and I said as much in my post.

As regards Foden, the whole game is available in the youth team thread mate and I suggest you watch Foden's contribution again. When doing so, bear in mind he has been given the freedom to range forward that Kieran hasn't. He's certainly busier than Kieran but that's his style. And he's a terrific little player who's going to be an absolute star I've no doubt. He did a couple of things in particular that stood out. One was a great long pass out to the right wing, and the other an excellent shot from the edge of the box. But lively as he was, he gave the ball away a lot, I'm talking 5 misplaced passes in 20 minutes compared to Kieran's 6 in 90 minutes. And he didn't create a single scoring opportunity for his team mates. Plus Scotland had 3 times as many efforts on goal in that same period as they had during the first 70 minutes, as Foden's introduction upset the defensive balance of the team.

I'm not having a go at Foden. I just don't think it's appropriate to compare his performance to Dowell's given they both had different jobs to do. Not that I need to. England U21s beat a very defensively strong and compact Scotland 2-0. Kieran scored one and his interception and foul directly led to the second. I think that speaks for itself. But some people will never be happy.

Incidentally, I don't disagree with your overall view that Dowell needs to impose himself more on games if he's ever going t make the breakthrough to the first team. That's absolutely spot on. I just don't think that was the case yesterday.

Re the bold part, I wonder if there are a bunch of bed wetters on Man City forums baying for him to be sold

 

[Brisan123]

Yes you must have been. I (pretty obviously I thought but there you go) didn't mean that anyone who has ever turned someone or dribbled past someone is top class, but the way in which somebody does something hints at a special kind of talent. Obviously much of that is just down to personal perception but I stand by what i'm saying.

Agree to a point
When I first seen Rooney as a 16 yr old I knew , I said that kids special
When we first seen Bernard within a couple of mins you knew he was special
Seen it with Giggs Beckham Scholes
There are very few young English players about now where the same can be said and I’d include Dowell in that
He may turn out as a good player but not something special unless something clicks within himself

 

[Frang]

Agree to a point
When I first seen Rooney as a 16 yr old I knew , I said that kids special
When we first seen Bernard within a couple of mins you knew he was special
Seen it with Giggs Beckham Scholes
There are very few young English players about now where the same can be said and I’d include Dowell in that
He may turn out as a good player but not something special unless something clicks within himself

Kane wasn't special till he turned 22/23

 

[Lanolin]

Kane wasn't special till he turned 22/23

Obviously a completely different type of player in which you're looking for a different skillset, but just to be clear he'd scored 49 goals in 86 PL games before his 23rd birthday, that's quite special.

 

[Frang]

Obviously a completely different type of player in which you're looking for a different skillset, but just to be clear he'd scored 49 goals in 86 PL games before his 23rd birthday, that's quite special.

What I'm getting at is just cos your not totally special at say 18, doesn't mean you can't become a special player.. Lindgard doing similar at United, late developer him

Dowell has achieved more than most his age group already

 

[Lanolin]

What I'm getting at is just cos your not totally special at say 18, doesn't mean you can't become a special player.. Lindgard doing similar at United, late developer him

Dowell has achieved more than most his age group already

Yes I don't dispute that at all. Lingard isn't a special player though, just a good one. The point was that if Dowell can work hard at his deficiencies and become a player like Lingard, who works hard, covers a few positions, pops up with a few goals and generally gets involved in the play, that will be great. If he continues to just coast through games not really getting involved and being on the periphery, he will struggle to make a breakthrough because he isn't 'special' enough to justify it.

 

[Frang]

Yes I don't dispute that at all. Lingard isn't a special player though, just a good one. The point was that if Dowell can work hard at his deficiencies and become a player like Lingard, who works hard, covers a few positions, pops up with a few goals and generally gets involved in the play, that will be great. If he continues to just coast through games not really getting involved and being on the periphery, he will struggle to make a breakthrough because he isn't 'special' enough to justify it.

I think he might surprise a few and having this current crop of talent to learn from everyday should enhance him even more

 

[Brisan123]

Kane wasn't special till he turned 22/23

And as I said unless something clicks within Dowell he won’t be special
Not saying he won’t be but he’s not yet , and I can’t see him getting much game time here
Davies who is not as skilful is getting games and captaining the side already
DCL gets more game time

 

[Frang]

And as I said unless something clicks within Dowell he won’t be special
Not saying he won’t be but he’s not yet , and I can’t see him getting much game time here
Davies who is not as skilful is getting games and captaining the side already
DCL gets more game time

There will be a little competition between do well and lookman for a place in the squad

 

[SiEdmo]

Agree to a point
When I first seen Rooney as a 16 yr old I knew , I said that kids special
When we first seen Bernard within a couple of mins you knew he was special
Seen it with Giggs Beckham Scholes
There are very few young English players about now where the same can be said and I’d include Dowell in that
He may turn out as a good player but not something special unless something clicks within himself

what about rooney made you say that though? a couple of long range goals and not a whole lot else as a manager still learning the ropes played him not in a perfect position? to me that's the same as dowell, and im not saying hes the new rooney, rooney was once in a generation, but how can you not look at kierans left foot and think its something special

 

[Frang]

what about rooney made you say that though? a couple of long range goals and not a whole lot else as a manager still learning the ropes played him not in a perfect position? to me that's the same as dowell, and im not saying hes the new rooney, rooney was once in a generation, but how can you not look at kierans left foot and think its something special

Being a proper left footer should give him a much higher chance of making it as they are few and far between.. Esp a wand of one

 

[Lanolin]

what about rooney made you say that though? a couple of long range goals and not a whole lot else as a manager still learning the ropes played him not in a perfect position? to me that's the same as dowell, and im not saying hes the new rooney, rooney was once in a generation, but how can you not look at kierans left foot and think its something special

I take it you didn't see Rooney as a teenager? He was absolutely phenomenal, everything about him screamed world class. He was that good that many people think his career as Manchester United and England's all time leading goalscorer, and winning countless trophies, was actually a bit of a let down.

 

[Brisan123]

what about rooney made you say that though? a couple of long range goals and not a whole lot else as a manager still learning the ropes played him not in a perfect position? to me that's the same as dowell, and im not saying hes the new rooney, rooney was once in a generation, but how can you not look at kierans left foot and think its something special

Because Rooney had something about him
Always wanting the ball , always had time on the ball , carried himself with confidence and was prepared to stand still with the ball at his feet waiting for the pass to open up
The young lad at Chelsea Ampadu has that something special about him , you just know it within the first 25 m
He is going to be a very special player and you can vault me on that

 

[Brisan123]

what about rooney made you say that though? a couple of long range goals and not a whole lot else as a manager still learning the ropes played him not in a perfect position? to me that's the same as dowell, and im not saying hes the new rooney, rooney was once in a generation, but how can you not look at kierans left foot and think its something special

You need more than a wand of a left foot to make it in the PL now