Current Affairs Joe Biden POTUS #46

[tsubaki]

Are you defending that strike?

Jesus, tsu...i honestly thought you were morally more sound than that.

If they honestly thought that was a vehicle borne suicide bomb heading to attack the airport, then yes it probably was justified.

 

[Amw79]

My position is any President should have been impeached for deaths of innocents. That includes all of them in living memory except perhaps Carter and at a push Trump (if we accept his ceding authority to the military for the Yemen strikes as valid-innocence, which is another conversation).

The reality is now, however. Now we again have such strikes, on top of the entire Afghan debacle. He should be impeached. If not, we in the West (or at least those in the US) have zero claim to moral authority over anyone.



Are you defending that strike?

Jesus, tsu...i honestly thought you were morally more sound than that.

So all presidents in living memory, except perhaps Carter and possibly Trump which is “another conversation”.

Definitely ending this now.

 

[dholliday]

If they honestly thought that was a vehicle borne suicide bomb heading to attack the airport, then yes it probably was justified.

i can't even begin to form a reply to this...textbook naivety with a sprinkling of appeal-to-authority.

Just like they honestly thought all those other drone bombs of the last 20 years were suicide-bombing vehicles...

Biden's bombs hit a residential neighbourhood, hit actual homes ffs. I'm frankly shocked you're quasi-defending this.

 

[dholliday]

So all presidents in living memory, except perhaps Carter and possibly Trump which is “another conversation”.

Definitely ending this now.

your loss.

 

[TN Toffee]

My position is any President should have been impeached for deaths of innocents. That includes all of them in living memory except perhaps Carter and at a push Trump (if we accept his ceding authority to the military for the Yemen strikes as valid-innocence, which is another conversation).

The reality is now, however. Now we again have such strikes, on top of the entire Afghan debacle. He should be impeached. If not, we in the West (or at least those in the US) have zero claim to moral authority over anyone.



Are you defending that strike?

Jesus, tsu...i honestly thought you were morally more sound than that.

And of course conveniently overlook the 650,000 in this country who are dead from COVID. Obviously 100% of those deaths could not have been prevented, but it’s hard to argue that number wouldn’t be significantly lower had he not chosen to utterly abdicate his presidential responsibility to deal with the virus.

And also however many asylum seekers have been sent back to their deaths in Central American thanks to his inhumane immigration policies.

 

[dholliday]

And of course conveniently overlook the 650,000 who are dead from COVID. Obviously 100% of those deaths could not have been prevented, but it’s hard to argue that number wouldn’t be significantly lower had he not chosen to utterly abdicate his presidential responsibility to deal with the virus.

whataboutism

 

[tsubaki]

i can't even begin to form a reply to this...textbook naivety with a sprinkling of appeal-to-authority.

Just like they honestly thought all those other drone bombs of the last 20 years were suicide-bombing vehicles...

Biden's bombs hit a residential neighbourhood, hit actual homes ffs. I'm frankly shocked you're quasi-defending this.

Again, if someone genuinely thinks there is no other way to prevent an attack that would cause severe loss of life than to take an action like that, then it probably is justified.

As I said a few days ago there is a lot more justification for that, when there is easily visible military necessity for a strike, than there is for the assassination missions like the ones that killed al-Awlaki and Sulemani (where there was much less immediate military need). If that had been a VBIED, it would have killed hundreds of people had it got to the airfield.

 

[dholliday]

Again, if someone genuinely thinks there is no other way to prevent an attack that would cause severe loss of life than to take an action like that, then it probably is justified.

To bomb a house where it's known an allied interpreter lives with his family? The US knows where their interpreters live. They bombed his house.

You're justifying it. Genuinely a bit sickened by this, never thought I'd read such a view on GOT.

As I said a few days ago there is a lot more justification for that, when there is easily visible military necessity for a strike, than there is for the assassination missions like the ones that killed al-Awlaki and Sulemani (where there was much less immediate military need). If that had been a VBIED, it would have killed hundreds of people had it got to the airfield.

jesus wept...please stop.

and re: Soleimani...you can tell it wasn't a bad decision as there were no serious repercussions.

 

[tsubaki]

To bomb a house where it's known an allied interpreter lives with his family? The US knows where their interpreters live. They bombed his house.

You're justifying it. Genuinely a bit sickened by this, never thought I'd read such a view on GOT.



jesus wept...please stop.

and re: Soleimani...you can tell it wasn't a bad decision as there were no serious repercussions.

No serious repercussions? Do you want to try that again?

As for the rest, for at least the second time the justification for doing what they did has to be extremely high.

A circumstance that would count as extremely high is a suicide bomb actually heading to its target. That is what they claim they did (rather than deliberately bombing one of their own interpreters houses, which is what you appear to be claiming to say here).

 

[dholliday]

No serious repercussions? Do you want to try that again?

As for the rest, for at least the second time the justification for doing what they did has to be extremely high.

A circumstance that would count as extremely high is a suicide bomb actually heading to its target. That is what they claim they did (rather than deliberately bombing one of their own interpreters houses, which is what you appear to be claiming to say here).

Two things are true, either:

1) They had the coordinates...the coordinates showed the neighbourhood. They bombed the neighbourhood.
2) they had coordinates of a terrorist vehicle heading to the airport (a vehicle it turns out never existed) but their bomb was so far out of whack it instead bombed a local neighbourhood...and by coincidence killed an allied Interpreter.

If you feel morally fine by your attempts to justify this, that's on you.

 

[tsubaki]

Two things are true, either:

1) They had the coordinates...the coordinates showed the neighbourhood. They bombed the neighbourhood.
2) they had coordinates of a terrorist vehicle heading to the airport (a vehicle it turns out never existed) but their bomb was so far out of whack it instead bombed a local neighbourhood...and by coincidence killed an allied Interpreter.

If you feel morally fine by your attempts to justify this, that's on you.

Are you seriously trying to pretend only two things could be true there?

What all the reports suggest is that they fired a missile from a drone at a car, which blew up outside some homes. Whether that blew up because of the missile’s warhead or because of the cars’ contents blowing up, is something we don’t know.

Also why are you trying to pretend the vehicle never existed?

 

[dholliday]

Are you seriously trying to pretend only two things could be true there?

What all the reports suggest is that they fired a missile from a drone at a car, which blew up outside some homes. Whether that blew up because of the missile’s warhead or because of the cars’ contents blowing up, is something we don’t know.

Also why are you trying to pretend the vehicle never existed?

jesus truly wept...

 

[verreauxi]

So all presidents in living memory, except perhaps Carter and possibly Trump which is “another conversation”.

Definitely ending this now.

"another conversation" as dholliday said, is an pseudo-intellectual's way of engaging in whataboutery.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

There has not been a single Politician anywhere in the world, or military leader (current or retired) who has said that he’s doing a good job in respect of Afghanistan There are a great many who have publicly stated he is an imbecile or it’s been shambolic. I think this tells you everything…..

There is no "good" result from Afghanistan. Never has been and never will be. The idea that any President or PM can ever come out of an Afghan war well is nuts.

The mistake was starting a war that couldn't be won in the first place. The end of it is a mere footnote.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

I love America, but having tried to put another side during the Trump years, I found it almost impossible to elicit any kind of rational responses to anything he did. Well there were honourable exceptions such as @verreauxi or @LinekersLegs or even @Ruairi77 on occasions. But what struck me was the vitriol and the level of animosity. even worse were the various Labour supporting Brits who also piled in. Of course when Biden emerged as victorious, all was well in the world. Until this absolute shitstorm in Afghanistan. Then the world went quiet, apart from the Brit Labour supporters still defending Biden and attacking Trump, even though both had completely messed this up.

Trump was an idiot, Biden is incompetent ……

I'm clearly coming to this after a period of absence but Trump really?

All we can ever judge our political leaders on are their policies and their personal characteristics/statements.

For the former I hated his America First/jingoistic nationalism with a passion and found his anti immigrant rhetoric deeply disturbing but its the latter that nailed it for me.

You may say that all politicians lie sometimes or are evasive with the facts but Trump created a whole podium based on falsehoods. His term in office was a whirlwind of sackings and policy u turns. Look at what he said about covid for example when the world wanted leadership? And how can anyone defend that level of misogyny that he'd boast about?

And how can you defend not publicising his tax returns? He's clearly embarrassed as the proof will be there that he was never such a successful businessman as he claimed. He was handed a $1m to play with back in the early 70s from his slum landlord/racist father.

Lastly and possibly most serious is the damage gesture done to the trust in electoral democracy with his lies about an election he lost?