Difficult to comment due to close ties with Bulgers family.
The links was to show contrasts in how CJS differs from country to country.
James Bulger
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Difficult to comment due to close ties with Bulgers family.
The links was to show contrasts in how CJS differs from country to country.
Nebbiolo
Valuation: £108 million
The case in Norway shows a striking similarity. But the emphasis on understanding and forgiving the boys that killed the girl strikes me as a little naive and perhaps in part due to how society is expected to react to such an event. To me it is normal and probably healthy that we want these people punished, even if they are only 10 years old.
But time has moved on and although I believe the boys were criminally responsible, and wouldn't agree with moving the age of responsibility up to 15, at least not in the UK, their once young age is a factor in determining how we should respond to them nowadays, many years after the event.
To be honest, I think Sharpy was pretty much bang on (obviously under the assumption that they are now rehabilitated).
But I wouldn't want either of them as neighbours ...
Slight_Return
Player Valuation: £6m
You as a parent... unlucky offspring!
(ps. good of you to judge and attack me, yet nothing for the killers of a toddler. odd huh)
I realise it is an emotive issue but please avoid from such posts. Any posts wishing harm/death upon others aren't really welcome but as I said, I realise it is an emotive issue but just for future reference and for others to know, we don't appreciate posts of such nature.
Again, emotive issue so will be more lenient but thats not acceptable. Its his, and similiar to many others including James' mum and dads opinion, you may disagree but avoid abuse.
Basil Fawlty
Player Valuation: £35m
I watched a film which was called Boy A not long ago which follows a boy after his release from prison who had killed a kid when he himself was one. Not really about the Bulger case but I kept thinking back to it when I was watching it
Seamus Colemole
Previously deathbyropeandglass
Good post. Although i don't think their age is an issue in this case. Both boys knew that what they were doing was deemed wrong even at their age.
But what makes 2 young boys do what they did? Its a long answer but if you look hard enough you will find it. Simple answer is that 2 young boys who felt isolated and worthless within their own families came together and redirected those feelings inside them onto someone else.
At first they just wanted to kidnap a kid but leave him to be found, but then it escalated with 1 boy daring the other to go further and further with the other boy not wanting to back down.
Unfortunatly a lot of differing factors all came together and resulted in the horrific death of a young boy. Thankfully it is very rare that this happens.
I don't believe either of them will ever re-offend in the same manor, but i understand people not wanting them to ever be free regardless of their age of chance of re-offending. Does seem highly unfair they get new identities and a new life while the Bulger family have to live with what happened, but they would no matter what happened to Venables and Thomson. No matter what punishment they recieved it wouldn't of changed what happened or bring a boy back to life.
At the end of the day they weren't [Poor language removed] up sickos or monsters, they were 2 young boys who through a combination of many differing factors ended up commiting a horrific crime which changed their lifes and that of their victims family forever. And whether most people want to admit it or not it could of been any one of us. A scary thought most people wont want to face but the psychological make up of the human mind can be very dangerous, and we are all born with an equal chance of being the very thing we all despise.
But like i said earlier, it takes a lot of varying factors to all come together for that to happen and thankfully it is rare. And the more you learn about these things the better you can understand it. And just labeling people murders and evil etc etc while understandable doesn't help us understand why they are like they are. And the more we understand the more we can do to stop it.
manxtoffee
Player Valuation: £15m
Good well thought out post DbRaG
I believe the boys' parents bare some if not most of the responsibility for the horrid actions of their kids...
I also believe the way you are bought up, has a huge effect on a child's outlook as they get older..Sadly, the fact is, a lot kids who constantly offend come from either broken families or even worse, have been abused themselves.
I believe the boys' parents bare some if not most of the responsibility for the horrid actions of their kids...
I also believe the way you are bought up, has a huge effect on a child's outlook as they get older..Sadly, the fact is, a lot kids who constantly offend come from either broken families or even worse, have been abused themselves.
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Nebbiolo
Valuation: £108 million
Good post, Death. I'd rep you but I have to spread it around for a bit.
One factor that might be added to what you say is whether either of these boys has some type of propensity to a pathological disorder, such as sociopathism (is that even a word?) or the like? I guess I'm wondering whether such a condition, as well as the other aspects of his life, may have pushed him into committing the evil act. And surely it is the case that one of the boys was ringleader, with the other being the follower?
But a nasty business, nonetheless.
One factor that might be added to what you say is whether either of these boys has some type of propensity to a pathological disorder, such as sociopathism (is that even a word?) or the like? I guess I'm wondering whether such a condition, as well as the other aspects of his life, may have pushed him into committing the evil act. And surely it is the case that one of the boys was ringleader, with the other being the follower?
But a nasty business, nonetheless.
Cahill's Metatarsal
Player Valuation: £15m
Were they bollocks, no person would be capable of committing acts of such evil without being a [Poor language removed] up, sick monster. It couldn't be any one of us because everything within me (& within all actual human beings) says that kidnapping, torturing & killing a young boy is wrong & that has always been the case, so to just say 'Oh, it must be their upbringing's fault, let them out' is complete [Poor language removed]. You might as well just get rid of jails & any form of punishment because it's society's fault that they're being punished in the 1st place.
You've got to be responsible for your own actions & the fact is they made the decision to do those evil things, nobody else made them do it & so they should be punished properly for doing them
Seamus Colemole
Previously deathbyropeandglass
I never said anything about letting them out or getting away with their crimes.
Do you think thats its then a case of that they were born as sick evil monsters and its just a matter of time before they kill someone? That its as black and white as that and that no external factors come into it?
You do realise that the first few months are the most important in a childs life of forming their personality and pshycological make up, and every human being is still being shaped in that regard until early adulthood?
Most people end up as normal regualr members of society, just like you and me. Some people don't.
When i said that it could of been you or me that commited those crimes i didnt mean that you or i could go out tomorrow and kill someone but that if you or my circumstances were different when we were growing up that we would be different people. And there is a chance that you or i could of turned out to be a killer. Every single human being born on to this planet could turn into a killer. So many things can influence the road our lives take.
Yes people have to be responsible for their actions, its the only way a decent society can really exist, if it didn't people would get away with everything and we'd all be [Poor language removed]. Doesn't stop people from trying to understand those actions and find reasons for them.
Slight_Return
Player Valuation: £6m
Right on the money for me, I agree completely, personal responsibility - these monsters stuck batteries where batteries shouldn't go - they threw bricks at him - a toddler - then dragged his dying body onto the train tracks to cover up the crimes they knew they had commit.
The pain and the agony that 2 year old baby suffered at the hands of ruthless killers is so disgusting, that I wish I could inflict a millionth of that torture on those that seek to defend his killers to give them a taste of the fear and the agony that they defend by proxy.
scum is scum, and scum defends scum. sickening!
Slight_Return
Player Valuation: £6m
There is no excuse, 'the cycle' has to stop.
And yes, some so called human beings are born sick.
needs of the many versus the needs of the few.
Nebbiolo
Valuation: £108 million
That's the worry. If people are born with a propensity to sadism then ideas about rehabilitation and the like go out of the window. My view is that some people perhaps are born with this "faulty" genetic inclination. In saying that, I wouldn't recommend we go down your path, and do as to them as they have done to us! That makes "us" as bad as "them". Plus if you're correct, and they are born monsters, we also have the question of free will to deal with.
Seamus Colemole
Previously deathbyropeandglass
Just an opinion or do you have evidence or reasons to back that up?
You may be right, some people might just be born evil and there is absolutely nothing that can be done about it.
Maybe we are all born evil then. But due to our upbringing and emotional formations the majority of people are lucky enough to be turned good but a few people slip through?
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