SundayMondayMagayeGueye
Player Valuation: £225k
Spot on...
Current Affairs Israel is an apartheid state
- Thread starter Billy Dean
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FrenchDarrenBent
Player Valuation: £20m
The only goal here is deflecting attention from the humanitarian disaster in Gaza.
He might consider doing a Putin here: retaliate against Iran to provoke them into a larger scale attack. He might also forget to activate the defence grid above Tel Aviv. Wouldn't that be shame: all those progressive voters dead or infuriated. Might make the next election easier.
He might consider doing a Putin here: retaliate against Iran to provoke them into a larger scale attack. He might also forget to activate the defence grid above Tel Aviv. Wouldn't that be shame: all those progressive voters dead or infuriated. Might make the next election easier.
tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
I’d love to be able to say that is a conspiracy theory daft post but it would be something that one could imagine he and several members of his government would act. He’d blame Biden for the disaster as well.
Well those settlements should be given back along with giving Syria back the Golan Heights as well.
Just because i believe in the right of the country of Israel to exist and it's right to defend itself within reason, doesn't mean that i approve of all of it and it's militaries actions.
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Nice sentiment, but the settlers have Israel by the balls. How does an Israeli government go about rehousing 700,000 people withinnthe 1967 "green line"?
Most settlers aren't ideological and live in the large settlement blocs adjacent to Jerusalem, lured there by cheaper house prices. These will have to be ceded to Israel as part of any two state solution, and swapped for equal land elsewhere. All Israel has offered in exchange before in it's "generous peace deals" are bits of desert with no territorrial contiguity with either Gaza or the West Bank.
The hardcore ideological settlers who live deep into the West Bank will be incredibly difficult to remove, and it probably isn't doable without Jewish blood being spilt by Jews. Any Israeli government that attempts it is not likely to survive.
It really is an intractable mess.
I don't know if i read this here or elsewhere, but this person said that there really couldn't have been a worse place on the planet to have an all Jewish state.
Yes this this is an intractable mess indeed. I really hope that Israel can move beyond Nethantahu and the right wing Likud party at some stage.
The current climate has probably galvanized support for him and Likud within Israel though.
Yeah, they should've given them Bavaria lol Prime bit of European real estate and would've taught the Germans a lesson.
Netanyahu is deeply unpopular in Israel and there are massive protests calling for him to go. Much of it is because of his perceived cavalier attitude towards the lives of the hostages. Not so much because of the indiscriminate wholesale slaughter in Gaza.
Toffeeslam
Player Valuation: £40m
This is possibly the most chilling of the Israeli mindset that they just don’t care about or have any empathy for others especially Palestinians.
Decades of mistreatment of the Palestinians and they just seem to blame the Palestinians for existing.
It’s like I shoot someone in the head then blame the person I shot for getting in the way of the bullet.
They were offered prime inhabited location in Africa (Uganda I believe) but they turned it down because they wanted Jerusalem even though it was already inhabited.
Says slot really
BigMick
Player Valuation: £20m
Last week we received news that 8 year old Mira, had died in Gaza. Mira was born with a congenital heart defect which saw her immediately whisked away from her mother to the emergency room in the now famous Al-Shifa hospital. An hour later the doctors declared her dead. Her mother asked to see her baby so was taken to the morgue where Mira lay. Her mother was sure she saw the tiny baby breathe - the nurse told her she was wrong. The mother asked to hold her baby and when she did they found that she was still breathing, just about.
Two days later she was in Tel Aviv having a major and complicated operation - the first of many in her short life. After the operation Mira and her mother went to stay in Ashdod. Like most Gazans the mother was wary, even frightened, about being in the land of the demonic and blood-thirsty Jews, as they are taught, so it was natural that she gravitated to the other Palestinian mothers and to my wife, who was working there at the time. The two became friends and stayed in touch, even though communications from Gaza were difficult and sporadic.
Mira had to return to Israel once a year for check-ups - her last appointment was February, which the war made impossible to keep. We suggested they head for one of the field hospitals set up by the UAE as they had the best reputation and someone we know with a similarly ill child had been immediately flown to the UAE for treatment. The doctors, though, decided that Mira was in no immediate danger so they had to stay in Gaza, in the 'safe zone' set up on the coast. Susceptible to every illness going around, it's 99% certain that her death was brought on by the terrible conditions she had been living in for months. The message we received from her mother was sad but beautiful. There were no recriminations about what had happened, just a mother's appreciation of the joy that Mira brought into her life and a desire for us to pass on her thanks to the volunteers in Ashdod and the doctors and nurses in Tel Aviv for making it possible.
Mira's death brings the number of people that I directly know who died as a result of October 7th to the awful landmark of 20. An insignificant number compared to the thousands that have died but it made me think that if I know 20 victims, how many do the average Israeli and Gazan know? This is what happens when two separate people dehumanise the other - both sides are guilty.
This war is just the latest manifestation of that dehumanising process, which began way before October 7th. It began way before the disastrous 2nd Intifada, though that certainly made it worse. It began before 1967 and the humiliating Arab defeat that led to the start of the occupation. It began before 1947/48, before the Great Arab Revolt of '36, before Haj Amin Al-Husseini, before the British Mandate, before Balfour and San Remo, before 1929's Hebron massacre and before the 1st Zionist Congress in 1897.
In the early 1880s there were multiple pogroms in the Russian Empire that caused Jews to flee to the port of Jaffa. The numbers were fairly insignificant, averaging about 1000 per year but it was enough for both the Ottoman elite and the local Arabs to worry. For the Ottomans they were Russian citizens first, Jews second. For the local Arabs they were Jews first, Russian citizens second.
Russia was the big enemy of the Ottoman Empire - they'd fought 4 wars - the last thing they wanted was citizens of their enemy setting up enclaves in their territory. The local Arabs treated the Jews who resided in Islamic lands as 'dhimmies' - 2nd class citizens who, provided they knew their place and kept to the rules, could live a peaceful life - apart from periodic attacks when they were scapegoated for society's perceived ills. Unlike those Jews, who resided in cities like Jerusalem, Safed, Tiberius and Hebron for generations going back 2000 years, these new immigrants were protected by agreements the Ottomans had signed with Russia - The Capitulations - which guaranteed them equal rights and immunity from Ottoman law. They did not 'know their place' or have to 'stick to the rules', but had the money - which the impoverished Ottomans needed - to buy land and build their own villages and towns.
In 1898 the preeminent Islamic theologian of his day, Rashid Rida, condemned the Arabs for allowing the Jews - "the weakest of peoples, who all governments are expelling" - to "take possession" of their country - it was an affront to Islamic honour. Haj Amin Husseini was a pupil of his.
The Mufti of Jerusalem said, "The Jews are coming because they are being driven out of Romania - we should get rid of them in the same way and they will flee elsewhere".
The first half of that sentence shows that in those days the Jews were recognised as refugees - the settler-colonialist slur only began to grow in the British era. The second half contains the much more important, tragic and basic Palestinian mistake: that the Jews will eventually flee if they are attacked sufficiently.
Not all Arab leaders thought like the Mufti. There were other clans who preferred negotiation and compromise with the British and the Jews but they were suppressed, even murdered - a strategy emulated years later by the PLO and Hamas. Today, many in the West seem to think people in both Gaza and the West Bank are monolithic in their views but plenty despise violence, reject the armed resistance narrative, and want lasting peace with Israel. Unfortunately, their voices are seldom heard, internally because of intimidation, externally because their message is too often not wanted.
The Mufti's statement was 110 years ago, long before the occupation, West Bank settlements or even the West Bank, before the IDF or its forerunner the Haganah, before Balfour and before the State of Israel. That same belief is still held today by Hamas and all the other extremists - just as the French fled Algeria so the Jews will eventually pack their bags and leave - no matter how long it takes or how many lives are lost. Khaled Mashaal recently dismissed the loss of life in Gaza: "The Russians sacrificed 30 million people in WW2...the Vietnamese sacrificed 3.5 million people until they defeated the Americans...Afghanistan sacrificed millions of martyrs to defeat the USSR and then the US...Algeria sacrificed six million martyrs to defeat France." With a mindset like that the loss of 30, 40 or 50,000 lives is trivial.
Are the horrors of Gaza and 7/10 the culmination of the dehumanising process? I'd like to think so but I doubt it. Western politicians placate their domestic audience by saying 'Two States' without saying when, where or how it will be created. I still believe it is the only way forward, eventually, but it needs more than glib pronouncements to bring the two sides together.
I'm a supporter of the Palestinian Equality and Justice and the Israeli/Palestinian Standing Together movements, both of which have endorsed the following proposal:
“The Jewish people and Palestinian people are both indigenous to the Land of Israel/Palestine and therefore have an equal and legitimate right to settle and live anywhere in the Land of Israel/Palestine.
Given the desire of both peoples to a sovereign state that would reflect their unique culture and history, we believe in sharing the land between a Jewish state, Israel, and an Arab state, Palestine, that would allow them each to enjoy dignity and sovereignty in their own national home. Neither Israel nor Palestine should be exclusively for the Jewish and Palestinian people respectively and both should accommodate minorities of the other people, with equal rights for all.”
Anyone talking about Two States should support that, or something close to it. Getting both sides to agree to it would be a big first step on a long road. There are members of the present Israeli government who would never agree to it, but past Israeli governments have proposed/agreed similar. No Palestinian leader has ever agreed to it but given the PA's new-found criticism of Iranian influence they deserve another chance, as soon as possible.
Two days later she was in Tel Aviv having a major and complicated operation - the first of many in her short life. After the operation Mira and her mother went to stay in Ashdod. Like most Gazans the mother was wary, even frightened, about being in the land of the demonic and blood-thirsty Jews, as they are taught, so it was natural that she gravitated to the other Palestinian mothers and to my wife, who was working there at the time. The two became friends and stayed in touch, even though communications from Gaza were difficult and sporadic.
Mira had to return to Israel once a year for check-ups - her last appointment was February, which the war made impossible to keep. We suggested they head for one of the field hospitals set up by the UAE as they had the best reputation and someone we know with a similarly ill child had been immediately flown to the UAE for treatment. The doctors, though, decided that Mira was in no immediate danger so they had to stay in Gaza, in the 'safe zone' set up on the coast. Susceptible to every illness going around, it's 99% certain that her death was brought on by the terrible conditions she had been living in for months. The message we received from her mother was sad but beautiful. There were no recriminations about what had happened, just a mother's appreciation of the joy that Mira brought into her life and a desire for us to pass on her thanks to the volunteers in Ashdod and the doctors and nurses in Tel Aviv for making it possible.
Mira's death brings the number of people that I directly know who died as a result of October 7th to the awful landmark of 20. An insignificant number compared to the thousands that have died but it made me think that if I know 20 victims, how many do the average Israeli and Gazan know? This is what happens when two separate people dehumanise the other - both sides are guilty.
This war is just the latest manifestation of that dehumanising process, which began way before October 7th. It began way before the disastrous 2nd Intifada, though that certainly made it worse. It began before 1967 and the humiliating Arab defeat that led to the start of the occupation. It began before 1947/48, before the Great Arab Revolt of '36, before Haj Amin Al-Husseini, before the British Mandate, before Balfour and San Remo, before 1929's Hebron massacre and before the 1st Zionist Congress in 1897.
In the early 1880s there were multiple pogroms in the Russian Empire that caused Jews to flee to the port of Jaffa. The numbers were fairly insignificant, averaging about 1000 per year but it was enough for both the Ottoman elite and the local Arabs to worry. For the Ottomans they were Russian citizens first, Jews second. For the local Arabs they were Jews first, Russian citizens second.
Russia was the big enemy of the Ottoman Empire - they'd fought 4 wars - the last thing they wanted was citizens of their enemy setting up enclaves in their territory. The local Arabs treated the Jews who resided in Islamic lands as 'dhimmies' - 2nd class citizens who, provided they knew their place and kept to the rules, could live a peaceful life - apart from periodic attacks when they were scapegoated for society's perceived ills. Unlike those Jews, who resided in cities like Jerusalem, Safed, Tiberius and Hebron for generations going back 2000 years, these new immigrants were protected by agreements the Ottomans had signed with Russia - The Capitulations - which guaranteed them equal rights and immunity from Ottoman law. They did not 'know their place' or have to 'stick to the rules', but had the money - which the impoverished Ottomans needed - to buy land and build their own villages and towns.
In 1898 the preeminent Islamic theologian of his day, Rashid Rida, condemned the Arabs for allowing the Jews - "the weakest of peoples, who all governments are expelling" - to "take possession" of their country - it was an affront to Islamic honour. Haj Amin Husseini was a pupil of his.
The Mufti of Jerusalem said, "The Jews are coming because they are being driven out of Romania - we should get rid of them in the same way and they will flee elsewhere".
The first half of that sentence shows that in those days the Jews were recognised as refugees - the settler-colonialist slur only began to grow in the British era. The second half contains the much more important, tragic and basic Palestinian mistake: that the Jews will eventually flee if they are attacked sufficiently.
Not all Arab leaders thought like the Mufti. There were other clans who preferred negotiation and compromise with the British and the Jews but they were suppressed, even murdered - a strategy emulated years later by the PLO and Hamas. Today, many in the West seem to think people in both Gaza and the West Bank are monolithic in their views but plenty despise violence, reject the armed resistance narrative, and want lasting peace with Israel. Unfortunately, their voices are seldom heard, internally because of intimidation, externally because their message is too often not wanted.
The Mufti's statement was 110 years ago, long before the occupation, West Bank settlements or even the West Bank, before the IDF or its forerunner the Haganah, before Balfour and before the State of Israel. That same belief is still held today by Hamas and all the other extremists - just as the French fled Algeria so the Jews will eventually pack their bags and leave - no matter how long it takes or how many lives are lost. Khaled Mashaal recently dismissed the loss of life in Gaza: "The Russians sacrificed 30 million people in WW2...the Vietnamese sacrificed 3.5 million people until they defeated the Americans...Afghanistan sacrificed millions of martyrs to defeat the USSR and then the US...Algeria sacrificed six million martyrs to defeat France." With a mindset like that the loss of 30, 40 or 50,000 lives is trivial.
Are the horrors of Gaza and 7/10 the culmination of the dehumanising process? I'd like to think so but I doubt it. Western politicians placate their domestic audience by saying 'Two States' without saying when, where or how it will be created. I still believe it is the only way forward, eventually, but it needs more than glib pronouncements to bring the two sides together.
I'm a supporter of the Palestinian Equality and Justice and the Israeli/Palestinian Standing Together movements, both of which have endorsed the following proposal:
“The Jewish people and Palestinian people are both indigenous to the Land of Israel/Palestine and therefore have an equal and legitimate right to settle and live anywhere in the Land of Israel/Palestine.
Given the desire of both peoples to a sovereign state that would reflect their unique culture and history, we believe in sharing the land between a Jewish state, Israel, and an Arab state, Palestine, that would allow them each to enjoy dignity and sovereignty in their own national home. Neither Israel nor Palestine should be exclusively for the Jewish and Palestinian people respectively and both should accommodate minorities of the other people, with equal rights for all.”
Anyone talking about Two States should support that, or something close to it. Getting both sides to agree to it would be a big first step on a long road. There are members of the present Israeli government who would never agree to it, but past Israeli governments have proposed/agreed similar. No Palestinian leader has ever agreed to it but given the PA's new-found criticism of Iranian influence they deserve another chance, as soon as possible.
Great post. Sorry for your losses.
Government forces blowing up children playing
https://www.instagram.com/p/C51gqPwMZqP/?igsh=MTBrMjh4OXJxcTl1bg==
https://www.instagram.com/p/C51gqPwMZqP/?igsh=MTBrMjh4OXJxcTl1bg==
There are some really disingenuous posters on here.
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