Current Affairs Israel is an apartheid state

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Piers Morgan actually lets the other guy speak here, which I'm surprised by as normally he can't stop interrupting

 

[DrEFC]

Yeah, on to ignore you go.
Literally making things up to get outraged about.

Honestly, go outside for a bit, get some fresh air, you’ve made an absolute bell of yourself on this thread.

Zat can't tell the difference between innocent Palestinians and Hamas because he's a bigot who views them as terrorists also, and has a hardon for certain Abrahamic religions and not others.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

There's nothing we can do to stop him, any more than we can make the Israelis let fuel into Gaza or turn the power on so that hospitals and desalination plants can function. Israel is a sovereign nation, the only lever we have to pull is foreign aid and we can't do much there with the House functionally closed.

Do you not think that providing two carrier battle groups in theatre along with additional THAAD and Patriot batteries and replacing Israel’s arsenal of Tamir interceptor missiles gives the US a say in what happens next?

I think it does and it just adds to the pressure mounting on the Israeli govt. The impact of Israel calling up 300K reservists must be biting financially and economically - having that amount of personnel sitting in the Negev desert scratching their arses is a sure indicator that there is a problem at the top.

Now we hear that a US 3 star general has arrived in town (They don’t appear very often) tells me that something is up, probably with Israel’s achievable goals. Hopefully they’ll be able to apply some leverage to Israel’s decision making process over the next couple of days.

Having said all that, it’s not inconceivable that Bibi will ignore any advice given and just pile straight into Gaza.

 

[Martin Alvito]

Having said all that, it’s not inconceivable that Bibi will ignore any advice given and just pile straight into Gaza.

This is precisely my point. We can tell them we will deny further military assistance, cut off funding and alter our Security Council position. What happens next is up to them.

We can't invade a nuclear power - if we were willing to do that, there's a decent chance we would have boots on the ground in Moscow - so the decision is ultimately theirs.

 

[peteblue]

Because the occupation/invasion had stopped! How can Palestinians “get over their wars” when Israel continue to occupy and expand?

What would you do, Pete?

I think I answered this further back. Two state solution drawn up within the West Bank ….

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

I think I answered this further back. Two state solution drawn up within the West Bank ….

That is a mythical situation while Israel continue to expand and have no intentions of returning the land.

So I ask you again, what would you do in Palestinians shoes?

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

This is precisely my point. We can tell them we will deny further military assistance, cut off funding and alter our Security Council position. What happens next is up to them.

We can't invade a nuclear power - if we were willing to do that, there's a decent chance we would have boots on the ground in Moscow - so the decision is ultimately theirs.

I was thinking more along the lines of reviewing the Israeli ground assault plan - then telling them it’s a crap idea.

Certainly wasn’t thinking along the lines of US military intervention

 

[Ruairi77]

For the expert in the thread:



Incidentally, she is a brilliant person to follow when it comes to media

yea, been following her for a while, her fox takedowns are great. Didnt realize she was Palestinian till this all kicked off again.

 

[peteblue]

That is a mythical situation while Israel continue to expand and have no intentions of returning the land.

So I ask you again, what would you do in Palestinians shoes?

Expel Hamas and let the Palestinians and Israelis negotiate, without a threat of terrorism, under the oversight of UN representation. Otherwise this will just continue, Gaza will be raised and the whole of the Gaza Strip will be completely cut off from Israel and any support, leaving Egypt as its only link. Israel will continue doing what it is doing in the West Bank and Palestinians will be the only ones who suffer…..not a pretty future….

 

[magicjuan]

There are different schools of thought regarding Zionsim within Orthodox Jewry.

But if we take the one everyone uses it kind of adds context and undermines the entire 'anti semite' argument doesn't it? Other than Palestinians being actual semitic people, versus American christian fundamentalist zionists who support Israel in an end times narrative whereby the Jews themselves (originally nomads) are wiped out for not accepting Christ? Isn't that what everyone is accusing Hamas and the Palestinians of wanting, the eradication of the Jews?
The accepted form of zionism remains, and, iirc, wasn't actually pushed by any orthodox jews at its inception, rather fought against until this day.

 

[Blue 1]

But if we take the one everyone uses it kind of adds context and undermines the entire 'anti semite' argument doesn't it? Other than Palestinians being actual semitic people, versus American christian fundamentalist zionists who support Israel in an end times narrative whereby the Jews themselves (originally nomads) are wiped out for not accepting Christ? Isn't that what everyone is accusing Hamas and the Palestinians of wanting, the eradication of the Jews?
The accepted form of zionism remains, and, iirc, wasn't actually pushed by any orthodox jews at its inception, rather fought against until this day.

I agree with this, but it was an orthodox rabbi, Avraham Isaac Kook, and his son, Zvi Yehuda Kook, who's philosophy gave Zionism the religious aspect we see today, and the MercazHaRav yeshiva in Jerusalem, from where they taught, has turned out hundreds of today's most militant settlers. Kook the Elder was around at the same time as Theodore Herzl, but his relationship with the Zionists wasn't always straightforward. It is the son who really bought the two together. Both served as Chief Rabbi of Mandate Palestine, IIRC.

 

[tantavisiteler]

 

[Martin Alvito]

I was thinking more along the lines of reviewing the Israeli ground assault plan - then telling them it’s a crap idea.

Certainly wasn’t thinking along the lines of US military intervention

I know you weren't. My point there is just that it is what would be required to stop them, if sufficiently determined.

Any input we may have is mere diplomacy. They'll agree if so inclined. The soft power levers confer some influence should that fail, but domestic politics may trump those considerations.

Objectively, a ground incursion into Gaza is a terrible idea on a whole bunch of levels. It will get a lot of IDF soldiers killed, it will get a lot of civilians killed, it's unlikely to retrieve many (if any) hostages or defeat Hamas, and the optics are bad. The Israeli government is also behaving as if they believe invasion is a domestic political necessity.

That's why wars happen. Both sides believe they can win (in the sense that they meet their objectives), negotiations break down and both sides think war is the best available tool. If Hamas did not think this, they would just release all the hostages now. That should tell the Israeli government something, but they seem unable to hear it.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Expel Hamas and let the Palestinians and Israelis negotiate, without a threat of terrorism, under the oversight of UN representation. Otherwise this will just continue, Gaza will be raised and the whole of the Gaza Strip will be completely cut off from Israel and any support, leaving Egypt as its only link. Israel will continue doing what it is doing in the West Bank and Palestinians will be the only ones who suffer…..not a pretty future….

Sounds beautiful - for ISrael. The settlers are never EVER going to move! They have taken lands and homes from their hosts and attacked them regularly for protesting. This has gone too far for "peace". Your peace (in Israel's favour) would involve the map of Palestine staying pretty much as it is now, something that they (palestinians) cannot and obviously should not have to accept. It is slightly akin to Ukraine but far worse. The invading aggressor demands lands which are not theirs. For the victims it is either put up or shut up to people like you and Kevtherat/davek/zat

Tell me, do you honestly think Israel will revert back to any time, land wise, that Palestine can even begin to accept - honestly?

Also, expel hamas?? Not that easy, Pete.
Without threat of terrorism.....every day for Palestinians living with or near settlers
The whole of the GAza strip cut off from support....happens constantly - water, aid and energy routinely cut off.

 

[TheFinnFan]

His husband is still being kept hostage. I'm sure she does what ever to give his husband better chances of surviving.
This is excellent sample of Hamas propaganda and you will be seeing this more in coming days.