Current Affairs Israel is an apartheid state

[Wat Tyler]

You guys seem like reasonable, well balanced, informed and tolerant progressives. For example, the response below to a woman who was stabbed to death.



I have a couple of questions from things I keep seeing. Maybe you lot can enlighten me with your wisdom?

What does free Paliestine mean?
Has Paliestine ever been a country?
What borders and from when do you want?
What does this saying mean “from the river to the sea Paliestine must be free”, and would you say it?
What is Zionism? Which Zionists are bad? Do they control the media?

Just themes I see over and over that I would like to understand, so I can be as well informed as you guys.

You won’t even spell Palestine correctly.

 

[Wat Tyler]

In which case there should be multiple clear distinctions between Jews, Israeli Jews and Israel and their belief structures.

There are also faiths within Judaism which not only follow the female bloodline, but the male one. We can divide things up any way, by individual, group or nation.

None of which have anything to do with wanting the destruction of Israel and all Jews. But the 'freedom' of Palestinians seems to be targeted away from their oppressors and towards Israel and the Jews.

This is the point which is clear and seemingly being ignored (as you have) when there is a clear and simple answer.

“But the 'freedom' of Palestinians seems to be targeted away from their oppressors and towards Israel and the Jews.”

Ah, so you do admit the Palestinians are being oppressed?

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

In which case there should be multiple clear distinctions between Jews, Israeli Jews and Israel and their belief structures.

There are also faiths within Judaism which not only follow the female bloodline, but the male one. We can divide things up any way, by individual, group or nation.

None of which have anything to do with wanting the destruction of Israel and all Jews. But the 'freedom' of Palestinians seems to be targeted away from their oppressors and towards Israel and the Jews.

This is the point which is clear and seemingly being ignored (as you have) when there is a clear and simple answer.

By whom?

A subset of people involved in pro-palestein protests? No doubt some nutters on social media.

But you are guilty of the same crime you are essentially accusing others of, namely failing to see that there's not one monolithic 'pro-palestein group' just as much as there's no universal form of Judaism.

I don't think anyone on here has advocated for the destruction of Jews, which you seem to imply. I further do not think anyone is putting blame at the feet of all Jews. Most folk seem quite clear on focusing on the the Israeli state, who as we have established, do not represent the whole of Judaism or all Jews. Indeed, some Jews feel quite uncomfortable with the response too.

Personally I think you need to calm down and think through what you are posting. It's massively contradictory whilst masquerading as an informed nuanced position. Yet always comes back to calling people anti-semites, nazis, and fascists.

the latter part I find very uncomfortable given the horrors of world war 2. You shouldn't use those terms in the context of this discussion lightly.

If anything, you are making sensible informed discussion impossible in here.

 

[Prevenger17]

I like how everyone just ignored Dcahill's gibberish

 

[Wat Tyler]

By whom?

A subset of people involved in pro-palestein protests? No doubt some nutters on social media.

But you are guilty of the same crime you are essentially accusing others of, namely failing to see that there's not one monolithic 'pro-palestein group' just as much as there's no universal form of Judaism.

I don't think anyone on here has advocated for the destruction of Jews, which you seem to imply. I further do not think anyone is putting blame at the feet of all Jews. Most folk seem quite clear on focusing on the the Israeli state, who as we have established, do not represent the whole of Judaism or all Jews. Indeed, some Jews feel quite uncomfortable with the response too.

Personally I think you need to calm down and think through what you are posting. It's massively contradictory whilst masquerading as an informed nuanced position. Yet always comes back to calling people anti-semites, nazis, and fascists.

the latter part I find very uncomfortable given the horrors of world war 2. You shouldn't use those terms in the context of this discussion lightly.

If anything, you are making sensible informed discussion impossible in here.

Good post mate, he’s like a microcosm for the Western Media at large, shout down any people asking for international law to be upheld, give the standard “Israel has a right to defend itself” (funny enough they never say Palestine can), and of course, when it’s going against you and the facts demonstrate that you’re defending a vile apartheid regime, accuse the “other team” of anti semitism. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

I like how everyone just ignored Dcahill's gibberish

Who?

 

[Goat]

I see, so you're picking and choosing which Palestinians to support.

Is it the ones who support Hamas? Those that want to follow with the way of life theyre being imposed upon them?

Or the others who would happily live in peace with the Israelis.

Yes.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Good post mate, he’s like a microcosm for the Western Media at large, shout down any people asking for international law to be upheld, give the standard “Israel has a right to defend itself” (funny enough they never say Palestine can), and of course, when it’s going against you and the facts demonstrate that you’re defending a vile apartheid regime, accuse the “other team” of anti semitism. Rinse and repeat.

I think that is a bit of a difficult position too. I only think certain parts of the Western media take this stance. The louder and less nuanced part. But there are some trying to examine things from both perspectives. I actually think the much maligned BBC are doing a decent job, for example.

But yes, I absolutely take your broader point there's a lot of noise, heat and not much light.

 

[Prevenger17]

Who?

Say what you like about Zat's bigoted, bloodthirsty rants; at least he can spell Palestine

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Good post mate, he’s like a microcosm for the Western Media at large, shout down any people asking for international law to be upheld, give the standard “Israel has a right to defend itself” (funny enough they never say Palestine can), and of course, when it’s going against you and the facts demonstrate that you’re defending a vile apartheid regime, accuse the “other team” of anti semitism. Rinse and repeat.

Exactly

 

[Zatara]

That’s not refuting or disproving what I said about Israel’s apartheid policy is it

What about them is not a defence and proves you got nothing

When you're going to single out a people for something and support another.

You may want to read up on those responsible for those people (Hamas) and their bosses (Iran) who are also listed alongside Israel.

Its hypocritical to recognise one but not the other...

...Iran is far more a candidate to be classed as an apartheid state than Israel.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

When you're going to single out a people for something and support another.

You may want to read up on those responsible for those people (Hamas) and their bosses (Iran) who are also listed alongside Israel.

Its hypocritical to recognise one but not the other...

...Iran is far more a candidate to be classed as an apartheid state than Israel.

You actually get more stupid the more you post.

 

[Toffeeslam]

When you're going to single out a people for something and support another.

You may want to read up on those responsible for those people (Hamas) and their bosses (Iran) who are also listed alongside Israel.

Its hypocritical to recognise one but not the other...

...Iran is far more a candidate to be classed as an apartheid state than Israel.

Iran does not rule over a population who they will not give a say on how they are governed or citizenship too, I’m not going to defend Iran as they are governed by nutters and can’t be defended and which has its own thread to air your views on.

My point is Israel is an apartheid state and you can’t prove it isn’t so stop deflecting and tell me why it isn’t.

BTW I’m not singling Isreal out it’s the west that is by denials of what they are inflicting in the Palestinians prior to this episode.

Again prove me wrong I bet you can’t

 

[Martin Alvito]

Yup, Biden has always been a warhawk.

I wouldn't go that far, but he has been unabashedly pro-Israel for fifty years. The only real schism he has with the Israeli government is over the two-state solution. He has always been opposed to the settlements, at least publicly, but when push comes to shove he backs the Israelis.

Like with most of his political positions, Biden is a weathervane on foreign policy. He always has been anti-Russia, was very slow to come around to seeing China as an adversary and was virulently opposed to the apartheid South African regime. When there was a bipartisan foreign relations vote on the Senate floor, it was rare to see Biden in the minority. Most of his Senate influence derived from being a vote both sides could get when sixty votes were required, which meant he had constant communication with the Senate offices that mattered.

 

[Blue 1]

Iran does not rule over a population who they will not give a say on how they are governed or citizenship too, I’m not going to defend Iran as they are governed by nutters and can’t be defended and which has its own thread to air your views on.

My point is Israel is an apartheid state and you can’t prove it isn’t so stop deflecting and tell me why it isn’t.

BTW I’m not singling Isreal out it’s the west that is by denials of what they are inflicting in the Palestinians prior to this episode.

Again prove me wrong I bet you can’t

Additionally, it's not "singling out Israel" when the situation there is unique.