Hinchcliffe's Corner
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You need to try and not be a wum on the most saddest of topics going especially when it comes to the murder of children. Please just bore off into some woke thread you're as funny as cancer.
Current Affairs Israel is an apartheid state
- Thread starter Billy Dean
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Martin Alvito
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This gets a little messy.
Hamas and Fatah (the party of the Palestinian Authority) have been at one another's throats for decades. To oversimplify, the PLO (the organization of parties that Yasser Arafat headed as the chairman of Fatah) wasn't militant enough for Hamas. Think of the divide as the schism between the classic IRA and the provisionals. To Hamas, Arafat was a sellout. They'll accept nothing less than the whole West Bank, reparations and other demands.
It once was the case that the Palestinian territories held elections, except there was this problem in early 2006, which was that Hamas won the legislative election. Hamas refuses to recognize Israel, so international aid from the US, EU, UN and Russia was suspended. With Fatah's Mahmoud Abbas as president, they also got even less done legislatively than a divided government in the United States.
After about a year and a half of ugly back-and-forth without results, Hamas finally had enough. They more or less invaded Gaza, seized control and deported the members of Fatah in the government. The PA reciprocated in the West Bank, so when Israel says they're declaring war on Hamas, what they mean is that they're declaring war on Gaza.
There haven't been elections in the West Bank since. Mahmoud Abbas is functionally a dictator, but he's the guy the West and Russia are willing to work with, so they all recognize him as the legitimate leader. This is far from the only place in the world where the western democracies have entertained that little hypocrisy in the furtherance of policy ends.
NilSatisOptimum
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Both sides Hamas and Israel state in the guise of Israel defence force are raging war on civilians.
Should also be remembered that Israel gave succour to and promoted Hamas in the 1980s in order to create exactly the schism described above. Arafat signed away any Palestinian claim to anything beyond the 1967 green line at Oslo, but it still wasn't enough. The Israeli far right, tacitly encouraged by the likes of Netanyahu and Sharon, executed Rabin for agreeing to give up the West Bank, and the settlement building and land-grabbing never stopped for a minute.
Martin Alvito
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*nods* I respected Rabin. Never have had much use for Sharon or Netanyahu. Their position is straightforward: we were driven from our homes, and the only way we will ever be secure is to drive the Palestinians from theirs. I have always seen the settlements as having two purposes: to invest the broader Israeli public in possession of the West Bank, and to paint targets on those people. The Israeli far right has proven through its actions that it actively wants terrorism as a means to an end. They just don't want it on the scale we observed this weekend.
The reasoning doesn't work, in the sense that the effective expulsion of Jews from Muslim territories was broadly supported by those countries throughout the region. Removing the Palestinians from the West Bank won't solve Israel's broader regional problems. If they want peace, rather than armistice, they'll have to concede it.
davek
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Funny isn't it that when it's working against the geo-political objectives of the western governments content on twitter becomes a massive issue.
It's like they're trying to control the message or something.
www.theguardian.com
The Guardian's 'Comment is Free' section too....Lol.
It's like they're trying to control the message or something.
Don’t look to Elon Musk’s X for reliable information on Israel or Palestine | Margaret Sullivan
Twitter’s accelerating demise is not among the worst atrocities of the past week. But, at a crucial time, it has managed to add to the world’s misery
The Guardian's 'Comment is Free' section too....Lol.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
...and a third: the profit motive. The construction industry makes massive profits from building settlements and the banking sector finance the mortgages for Israelis moving to them and loans to regional authorities to provide the infrastructure for them to work.
In a generation or two there will be minority rule in Israel and the Occupied Territories. That won't end well for Israel. The national-religious right's greed and lunacy over the past 30 years have seen to that. I don't know how you go about removing half a million settlers, the majority of whom these days aren't the religious loonies who started the settlement movement, and live in large blocs adjoining Jerusalem tempted there by lower house prices, but some of the more egregious settlements with no contiguity to Israel proper ought to go.
You also have the trouble now , of course, that settler numbers in the army are disproportionately high, so there is a fair probability that any order to evacuate settlements would be refused by significant numbers.
The only viable future is one shared state, the "facts on the ground" Ariel Sharon was so fond of see to that.
It's an intractable mess, for many other reasons, too, and despite the bloodshed, the real, most important battle is between those who want to coexist peacefully and those who don't, and hope lies in remembering that there are plenty who do.
mightymoyes
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yet the IDF have the full backing and support of western govts on their genocidal rampage
mightymoyes
Player Valuation: £70m
you're one utterly thick piece of work, brain dead and ignorant.
Jews have a long history in socialism, the likes of Emma Goldman, Alexander Berkman, Noam Chomsky, David Graeber, Howard Zinn etc etc
but you're so bigoted and anti-Semitic you don't even know it.
Just put him on ignore mate, as @Goat pointed out to me yesterday, he’ll never type anything worth reading.
Great post this. I think what you mention in your last paragraph is perhaps what I find the most depressing aspect of it all.
Twitter is an absolute cesspool of misinformation, loony conspiracies and hate. I don't think it's dependent on who is spouting it. It needs to be binned. If the Israel war kicks governments into action, then so be it.Funny isn't it that when it's working against the geo-political objectives of the western governments content on twitter becomes a massive issue.
It's like they're trying to control the message or something.
Don’t look to Elon Musk’s X for reliable information on Israel or Palestine | Margaret Sullivan
Twitter’s accelerating demise is not among the worst atrocities of the past week. But, at a crucial time, it has managed to add to the world’s misery
The Guardian's 'Comment is Free' section too....Lol.
NilSatisOptimum
Player Valuation: £70m
Remember not to long ago when Ed Millibnad was Labour leader, the UK media went to town on his deceased father, "most dangerous Jew in Britain" etc. All because he had socialist principles.
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