Current Affairs Israel is an apartheid state

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At the bottom they have one/reference this one;

View attachment 230872

They also link to this;


Me? I've no clue.

I just saw the map you shared online and the debate towards its accuracy.
There are maps going back centuries that show Palestine and the Romans talk of the Palestina people
 
At the bottom they have one/reference this one;

View attachment 230872

They also link to this;


Me? I've no clue.

I just saw the map you shared online and the debate towards its accuracy.
Myself think your linked article was tenuous at best, hiding behind Ottoman and British empire control to dispute Palestine. Its a whole lot of 'confusion' about this and that and this, trying to deflect away from the overall message.
 
Myself think your linked article was tenuous at best, hiding behind Ottoman and British empire control to dispute Palestine. Its a whole lot of 'confusion' about this and that and this, trying to deflect away from the overall message.
I think the upshot is - if you go back in history then both Israeli and Palestinian have legit claims to these lands.

The tragedy is that they still haven’t figured out how to make it work between them.
 
Myself think your linked article was tenuous at best, hiding behind Ottoman and British empire control to dispute Palestine. Its a whole lot of 'confusion' about this and that and this, trying to deflect away from the overall message.

See, that's what I suspected the map you shared did.

I'm sure Israel have been grabbing land, but I do wonder whether this overstates it. The "UN Plan" alone made me wonder - Plan.

1696938725941.webp
 
There have been Jews and Arabs living on that bit of land for millennia. Why the national story of one needs to trump the other is the question they should be asking.

They have a joint historical narrative, and need to understand each other's pain rather than invalidate it, the perhaps they can work towards reconciliation. Both people believe the land to be God-given, and they worship the same God. The nation-states of "Israel" and "Palestine" are human constructs. If they love their God as they say they do, then they should be working together to "make the desert bloom", not turning it into a war zone, while one people live in luxury at the expense of the other.
 
There have been Jews and Arabs living on that bit of land for millennia. Why the national story of one needs to trump the other is the question they should be asking.

They have a joint historical narrative, and need to understand each other's pain rather than invalidate it, the perhaps they can work towards reconciliation. Both people believe the land to be God-given, and they worship the same God. The nation-states of "Israel" and "Palestine" are human constructs. If they love their God as they say they do, then they should be working together to "make the desert bloom", not turning it into a war zone, while one people live in luxury at the expense of the other.
It all sounds so easy when you put it like that. Maybe we need a new country called Israstine
 
I think the upshot is - if you go back in history then both Israeli and Palestinian have legit claims to these lands.

The tragedy is that they still haven’t figured out how to make it work between them.

The problem with that thinking is that it ignores the historical reality that, for a lot of people, they are living where their ancestors lived. Many Palestinian Muslims will be the descendants of Jews, Samaritans, Christians and others who converted to Islam hundreds of years ago.

I am not sure that others, who lay claim to the land based on things that ended 1500 years ago to other people, have as strong a claim.
 
I think the upshot is - if you go back in history then both Israeli and Palestinian have legit claims to these lands.

The tragedy is that they still haven’t figured out how to make it work between them.
I am not too sure how much of a claim you have if you haven't been there for 2000 years. Also, over 50% of the jews in Israel are Ashkenazi and do not have ANY lineage/past in this area.
 
The problem with that thinking is that it ignores the historical reality that, for a lot of people, they are living where their ancestors lived. Many Palestinian Muslims will be the descendants of Jews, Samaritans, Christians and others who converted to Islam hundreds of years ago.

I am not sure that others, who lay claim to the land based on things that ended 1500 years ago to other people, have as strong a claim.
Exactly
 
There have been Jews and Arabs living on that bit of land for millennia. Why the national story of one needs to trump the other is the question they should be asking.

They have a joint historical narrative, and need to understand each other's pain rather than invalidate it, the perhaps they can work towards reconciliation. Both people believe the land to be God-given, and they worship the same God. The nation-states of "Israel" and "Palestine" are human constructs. If they love their God as they say they do, then they should be working together to "make the desert bloom", not turning it into a war zone, while one people live in luxury at the expense of the other.

Not sure if you have seen Anthony Bourdain's episode but that's far off his monologue
 
The problem with that thinking is that it ignores the historical reality that, for a lot of people, they are living where their ancestors lived. Many Palestinian Muslims will be the descendants of Jews, Samaritans, Christians and others who converted to Islam hundreds of years ago.

I am not sure that others, who lay claim to the land based on things that ended 1500 years ago to other people, have as strong a claim.
Sure.

I see your point about validity of historical and genealogical claims and it may have been all so different today if it wasn’t for Nazi Germany and WWII.

If I understand correctly. After WWII there were many thousands of displaced Jews in Europe who decided that, given what had just happened to them in the last decade they would return to their “spiritual” homeland (administered at the time by the British). This spiritual homeland claim I believe came from their genetic links to the ancient tribes of Israel Judah and before that the Canaanites who lived in the region.

So you had a situation where there was a sudden, huge influx of Jewish people into the land of Palestine many of whom were Engineers, craftsmen, architects, doctors etc. and who then quickly set about creating a new modernistic progressive society.

Meanwhile the Palestinians who were there already, were simple farmers, goat-herders and fisherman like they’d been for centuries before.

So it became apparent that the new modern Jewish state grew and expanded quickly, overcoming and overwhelming the Palestinians. With the Palestinian society being left behind and marginalised.

The rest is (pardon the pun) history.
 
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