Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

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No, some said it could jeopardise the GFA which is not the same as saying it might lead to violence.


Former Tory party chairman Lord Patten said:

"I think we did a really good job on the Good Friday Agreement. And I don't want to go back to the days when people were being shot and maimed."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa...ten-warns-Brexit-impact-Northern-Ireland.html


Former U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said:

“We cannot allow Brexit to undermine the peace that people voted, fought and even died for."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ireland-need-to-protect-good-friday-agreement



The SDLP politician Claire Hanna, who is the MLA for South Belfast said:

“We don’t want to overplay the impact on the peace process, but there are, unfortunately, men of violence lurking in the shadows here."


https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/po...test-northern-ireland-hard-border-violence-eu
 
Former Tory party chairman Lord Patten said:

"I think we did a really good job on the Good Friday Agreement. And I don't want to go back to the days when people were being shot and maimed."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa...ten-warns-Brexit-impact-Northern-Ireland.html


Former U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said:

“We cannot allow Brexit to undermine the peace that people voted, fought and even died for."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ireland-need-to-protect-good-friday-agreement



The SDLP politician Claire Hanna, who is the MLA for South Belfast said:

“We don’t want to overplay the impact on the peace process, but there are, unfortunately, men of violence lurking in the shadows here."


https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/po...test-northern-ireland-hard-border-violence-eu
Well done for proving my point with those quotes that Brexit could jeopardise the GFA. None of them imply however that there is an imminent threat of a return to violence by paramilitaries.

Unlike Davy Trimble, who should know better, saying that the Irish government risks provoking loyalist paramilitaries with its stance on the border after Brexit, which could interpreted by some as a call to arms.

There is big difference between the two.
 
Back to reality for May. The Irish should 'shut up' and 'tone down the language, May is not to be messed around with. Ticking time bomb for 'our' Theresa.

Brexit
Ireland warns of perils of failing to agree Brexit 'backstop' solution on border


Foreign minister says withdrawal treaty and transition deal at risk if acceptable wording not agreed

Lisa O'Carroll, Brexit correspondent

@lisaocarroll
Mon 16 Apr 2018 19.14 BSTLast modified on Mon 16 Apr 2018 20.32 BST



A poster on the border between Newry in Northern Ireland and Dundalk in the Irish Republic. Photograph: Paul Faith/AFP/Getty Images
Ireland has warned there will be no Brexit withdrawal treaty and no transition agreement unless Britain comes up with acceptable wording as a “backstop” solution to the Irish border question in the event of no deal.

The Irish foreign minister, Simon Coveney, told reporters in Luxembourg that difficulties would arise as early as June if the wording was not agreed.

Asked whether the transition agreement would be at risk if there was no deal in place by June, he said: “It puts everything at risk. Michel Barnier [the EU chief negotiator] has been very clear there will be no withdrawal agreement if there is not a backstop relating to the Irish border consistent with paragraph 49 of the political agreement in December.

“The British government have committed to doing [backstop] that. If that is not in the withdrawal agreement, then there will be no withdrawal agreement and there will be no transitional deal either.”

The vexed question of how to retain an open border between Northern Irelandand the Republic is the subject of six weeks of side talks between officials from London and Brussels. They are three weeks in with a formal review due on Wednesday between Britain’s lead negotiator, Olly Robbins, and the EU’s deputy chief negotiator, Sabine Weyand.

Asked whether the UK was closer to agreeing wording that would mean full alignment in regulations north and south of the border, Coveney said: “Not at the moment”.

The UK and the EU agreed three options on Northern Ireland in the joint report on Brexit signed in December. Option A was that a solution would be found in the wider deal, option B was a bespoke arrangement and option C the backstop solution of full alignment of regulations on both sides of the border in the event of talks breaking down.

But when the EU translated option C into legal text, May said no prime minister could accept a draft that would involve Northern Ireland remaining in the customs union and the single market.

Many believe the latest talks have kicked the can down the road, and Coveney has warned that time is running out if Britain is to agree its final Brexit deal by October.

“If there is not substantial progress on the Irish border, the backstop, [which is] simply in line with what the British have committed to, then I think there will be difficulties in June,” he said in reference to the next summit of EU leaders scheduled to review Brexit talks".
 
Whatever.....deal, no deal, the U.K. will be fine. The ROI of course will be totally screwed.....

Unfortunately Pete that’s not true, a no deal situation and our removal from the customs union opens the door for increased customs fraud and possible zoonotic diseases from outside the EU, by transiting through the Union itself to the U.K.

More than likely, from cross agency meetings I’ve attended, the Irish border will be located in the Irish Sea therefore having no direct hard border. Port of Liverpool will, in theory, become an entry point for EU trade, trade that under any other circumstances would checked at the border in Ireland.

The strain on officials at the port is already at breaking point, hence why the government will also determine goods from the EU safe and acceptable in accordance with relevant EU legislation.

Goods will flow into the U.K. without undergoing checks for safety, fraud in relation to misrepresentation of custom tariffs will also drastically increase causing millions of pounds to disappear, unchecked into the U.K.
 
Unfortunately Pete that’s not true, a no deal situation and our removal from the customs union opens the door for increased customs fraud and possible zoonotic diseases from outside the EU, by transiting through the Union itself to the U.K.

More than likely, from cross agency meetings I’ve attended, the Irish border will be located in the Irish Sea therefore having no direct hard border. Port of Liverpool will, in theory, become an entry point for EU trade, trade that under any other circumstances would checked at the border in Ireland.

The strain on officials at the port is already at breaking point, hence why the government will also determine goods from the EU safe and acceptable in accordance with relevant EU legislation.

Goods will flow into the U.K. without undergoing checks for safety, fraud in relation to misrepresentation of custom tariffs will also drastically increase causing millions of pounds to disappear, unchecked into the U.K.

Indeed, but my point was about whether or not we have a deal with the EU. Either way, the U.K. will do fine.....
 
What incidents will these be then....

With the acceptance of “all European traffic having no checks levied against them”, which is looking more likely by each passing day, the channels are open for such incidents.

A major food outbreak due to unfit meat being allowed through the border; I mean anincident like this almost occurred recently across Europe with the Brazilian food establishments trying to reprocess spoiled meat inside tinned goods, like corned beef. Thankfully the current European regime allowed for a complete border rejection across the entire union

Or the introduction of more exotic, and illegal meats (such as fruit bats) via European routes and transited onwards to the UK. Even the introduction of unregulated animal feed, causing another mass foot and mouth outbreak and having a detrimental impact on the entire economy for years to come.

The regimes currently in place to protect plant, human and animal health are second to none
 
With the acceptance of “all European traffic having no checks levied against them”, which is looking more likely by each passing day, the channels are open for such incidents.

A major food outbreak due to unfit meat being allowed through the border; I mean anincident like this almost occurred recently across Europe with the Brazilian food establishments trying to reprocess spoiled meat inside tinned goods, like corned beef. Thankfully the current European regime allowed for a complete border rejection across the entire union

Or the introduction of more exotic, and illegal meats (such as fruit bats) via European routes and transited onwards to the UK. Even the introduction of unregulated animal feed, causing another mass foot and mouth outbreak and having a detrimental impact on the entire economy for years to come.

The regimes currently in place to protect plant, human and animal health are second to none

It’s a wonder how we managed to exist before the blessed EU........ but I’m pretty sure we’ll be fine......
 
It’s a wonder how we managed to exist before the blessed EU........ but I’m pretty sure we’ll be fine......

I love that argument, it’s the simplest of get out clauses without actually addressing the issues.

I’m pretty sure that before the EU the world wasn’t has connected as it currently it is; the volume of both human and trade transiting around the world is the same as it was all those years ago??

1 container vessel pulling into Felixstowe from the Far East can handle in excess of 20,000 containers; how many months and trips would one vessel pre EU need to make to bring that much cargo into the U.K.???

How quick do agencies need to act when communicable disease outbreaks are reported?? The Ebola crisis, immediate response; why, because the world has changed and in the blink of an eye an infected person could be half way around the world.

The world is not the same, yet people believe it is and fail to acknowledge the changes in society. Bizarre
 
I love that argument, it’s the simplest of get out clauses without actually addressing the issues.

I’m pretty sure that before the EU the world wasn’t has connected as it currently it is; the volume of both human and trade transiting around the world is the same as it was all those years ago??

1 container vessel pulling into Felixstowe from the Far East can handle in excess of 20,000 containers; how many months and trips would one vessel pre EU need to make to bring that much cargo into the U.K.???

How quick do agencies need to act when communicable disease outbreaks are reported?? The Ebola crisis, immediate response; why, because the world has changed and in the blink of an eye an infected person could be half way around the world.

The world is not the same, yet people believe it is and fail to acknowledge the changes in society. Bizarre

The world is not the same, that is an absolute certainty, so why do you believe that grown up countries like the U.K. need an additional layer of bureaucracy on top of Parliament. The world changes, it always does, and those that change with it prosper. The inward looking control freakery of the EU is past its sell by date.....the EU is being very nice to the ROI at the moment, because it is a negotiating chip, but wait until the U.K. has left and a deal is done, then see how tax harmonisation across the EU helps to kill the ROI economy......
 
With all the trouble May is in, she just doesn't need another headache. Mind, she may not be around long enough to see the UK through leaving the EU. The north of the island of Ireland, will have special status meaning no border and staying in the customs union and the single market, business as now. The clock is ticking.

Brexit
EU rejects Irish border proposals and says Brexit talks could still fail


Michel Barnier says the UK wants to cherry pick its terms, and that the EU response is: ‘No way’

Lisa O'Carroll and Heather Stewart

Fri 20 Apr 2018 13.29 BST



EU chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier: ‘In terms of what has been agreed so far, it’s about 75%.’ Photograph: Martin Divisek/EPA
The EU’s chief negotiator has said there is still a “risk of failure” in the Brexit negotiations as Brussels again rejected the UK’s proposals to avoid a hard border in Ireland.

Michel Barnier said on Friday that a quarter of the work needed to complete preparations for the UK to leave the the bloc next March remains to be done, as sources say little progress was made in three weeks of talks to break the deadlock on the vexed Irish question.

“In terms of what has been agreed so far, it’s about 75%,” Barnier told France 2 television.

Even if Britain and the EU were working towards a British exit from the EU taking place in March 2019, this may not happen if outstanding topics such as Ireland were unresolved, he said.

“There are always difficulties, and risks of a failure,” said Barnier. Some in Britain want “what the English call cherry picking”, he said, adding that the reply to that was: “No way.”

A No 10 spokesman said on Friday the UK did not recognise claims that its plans for the Irish border had been subjected to a “systematic and forensic annihilation” by EU officials at a meeting this week with Britain’s lead negotiator, Olly Robbins.

The Daily Telegraph quoted unnamed EU diplomatic sources as saying that the Brussels officials delivered “a detailed and forensic rebuttal”, making clear that “none of the UK customs options will work - none of them”.

Sources say reports that Barnier had suspended internal talks on the future EU-UK trade deal until the Irish issue is resolved were incorrect.

But government sources did express exasperation at what they regard as the intransigence of the EU27.

Mujtaba Rahman, of the political consultancy Eurasia group, said: “This is the first time in an official meeting the UK’s Mansion House proposals have been systematically shot down by the EU side.”

While talks will continue over the next three weeks to try to achieve a breakthrough, there are fears that the Irish border question could, once again, prove a roadblock in wider Brexit negotiations when EU leaders meet again in June.

The EU27 negotiating team are frustrated that little has changed on the British side since last August, when they first rejected the government’s proposals.

Britain was proposing a new “streamlined customs partnership” that involved “regulatory equivalence” on both sides of the border, with the option for future “divergence” – something that the EU has rejected as unworkable.

Pro soft-Brexit Conservative MPs believe the government may be deliberately presenting proposals it knows will be knocked back by Brussels, to help the prime minister break the deadlock in Cabinet about how to proceed.

Backers of a customs union believe it is the only way of resolving the border issue; but it would also constrain the UK’s ability to strike distinct trade deals with non-EU countries.

The foreign secretary, Boris Johnson, told the Daily Telegraph on Wednesday: “Without your ability to do things in a different way if you want, and your ability to do free trade deals, there is very little point in Brexit. I think Theresa totally gets that.”

With a debate and vote on the customs union in the House of Commons next week expected to reveal the level of support for it among MPs, some believe the prime minister could yet be forced into conceding on her red line on the issue.

There are concerns in particular around agriculture that unless there was “alignment” in regulations, standards of food and livestock cross the border could not be guaranteed to be up to the EU’s standards.

Efforts to find a wording agreeable to both sides to provide a “backstop” option in the event that the overall Brexit deal did not obviate a need for border checks in Ireland have also not produced a breakthrough".
 
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