Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ruairi77 said:
Can you not see how reckless this tack is?
Click to expand...

We are two different countries. The U.K. is going it’s own way, just like the ROI did all those years ago when it broke away. Things will normalise and the U.K. will always support the ROI whatever the EU tries to do......
 
peteblue said:
No it doesn’t, it wants the U.K. to split itself up and remain in the single market and they are using the border as a negotiating ploy. They have no interest in NI or the ROI.......
Click to expand...
The EU wants what's best for it's member state. In Irelands case, thats maintaining the status quo at the border.
The GFA passed both sides of the border, the majority on both sides want no customs border. The majority both sides want to be in the single market.
But this stops you, living in England, from getting what you want.
 
Ruairi77 said:
The EU wants what's best for it's member state. In Irelands case, thats maintaining the status quo at the border.
The GFA passed both sides of the border, the majority on both sides want no customs border. The majority both sides want to be in the single market.
But this stops you, living in England, from getting what you want.
Click to expand...

If you believe that then perhaps you need to speak to someone from Greece, Poland, Austria, Italy etc etc. The EU is a bureaucratic body that wants what is best for itself, Germany and France. The ROI rates about the same as Malta apart from now when it could be useful in negotiations. The GFA was between the U.K. and ROI, the U.K. is the ROI’s single biggest market, the U.K. is the ROI’s biggest friend. But hey, just keep believing that ‘England’ is against you and that the EU are your bezzy mates. When next there is a financial problem in Ireland you’ll find out.....
 
peteblue said:
No it doesn’t, it wants the U.K. to split itself up and remain in the single market and they are using the border as a negotiating ploy. They have no interest in NI or the ROI.......
Click to expand...

They want us to remain in the single market for sure, however you can't say they have no interest in NI or the ROI as it will become a frontier. It is just like Poland offering a no border policy to Russia. If there is no hard border between the north and south what is stopping entrepreneurs making a killing by importing goods through the republic with the discounted rates that then get shipped to NI and from there on to the UK market as there is no control of goods between the island of Ireland and then no controls between the NI and the rest of mainland Britain.

If there is no hard border then the UK by proxy has not left the single market. What we have here is an old fashioned stand off, no way will the EU give May what she wants. We either have to let the north remain part of the single market and then put up controls between NI and GB or have a hard border between the north and south.
 
peteblue said:
No I haven’t, perhaps you could explain the problems that would result from the U.K. and NI not putting a hard border in place......
Click to expand...

The United Kingdom includes Northern Ireland we are the same place it is Great Britian and Northern Ireland that are different. Furthermore not only do you misunderstand the geography but you misunderstand my point, I see no problem with a soft border my issue is with a hard border.
However your willingness to put forward an opinion on something you seem to have little grasp of seems, to me, to dog the discussion on Brexit.
Furthermore it does appear to me to a somewhat strange position to adopt that Britian should take a vote to take back control of its borders and immediately give up control of its only land border with th EU, I find that strange.
 
peteblue said:
Again, who cares, they will just be visiting as they will have no rights once in the U.K. after Brexit. Both NI and the U.K. mainland will have no problem in letting EU nationals enter the country, they can spend their money, be unable to access jobs or benefits unless they are legitimate, and then go back or be removed, no problem.......what exactly is the issue.....
Click to expand...

Uncontrolled and unregulated open border EU migration into the UK forms a major red line for Johnson, Rees Mogg et al. Allowing EU citizens a 'backdoor' entry into the UK to quote Hoey, will not be allowed by them. It might not bother you but it will them. And that is why they threatened the Irish government after the vote with a hard border unless they 'control EU citizens entering the island of Ireland'.

The DUP want Northern Ireland to be treated the same as the rest of the UK i.e border checks on EU citizens entering the UK, similar to what will be in place at mainland airports and sea ports. That means the May government has to have passport checks on the island of Ireland if it wants to fulfill its promise of not allowing free movement of people, a red line.

It is Johnson et al who want a hard border on the island of Ireland to solve their own red line rhetoric about leaving the EU. They will be prepared to renege on an international agreement to save face. that is before they have the thorny issue of amending the Northern Ireland Act 1989 that stipulates that the ECJ will have jurisdiction over Northern Ireland' s law making powers at Stormont. This act was signed in conjunction with changes to the Irish constitution.

It is seeming more and more likely that the May government will renege on the GFA, voted for by 71% of people in the north, forced on her by Johnson et al and the DUP, then the Irish government will be forced to renew its constitutional claim for a united Ireland. Which in turn will lead to a vote in the North on uniting the island. The outcome of this is finely balanced so May could well be remembered as the Prime Minister that oversaw a united Ireland. May said yesterday, "“The draft legal text the Commission has published would, if implemented, undermine the United Kingdom common market and threaten the constitutional integrity of the United Kingdom by creating a custom and regulatory border down the Irish Sea.”, she agreed to this same thing in December but has been forced to change her mind. Not a good show to those countries outside the EU who the May government wants to talk trade deals with. They wouldn't get past first base. May is being pushed down the road to breaking up the 'constitutional integrity of the UK'. She is not up to the task, June election I suspect.
 
hullefc said:
Uncontrolled and unregulated open border EU migration into the UK forms a major red line for Johnson, Rees Mogg et al. Allowing EU citizens a 'backdoor' entry into the UK to quote Hoey, will not be allowed by them. It might not bother you but it will them. And that is why they threatened the Irish government after the vote with a hard border unless they 'control EU citizens entering the island of Ireland'.

The DUP want Northern Ireland to be treated the same as the rest of the UK i.e border checks on EU citizens entering the UK, similar to what will be in place at mainland airports and sea ports. That means the May government has to have passport checks on the island of Ireland if it wants to fulfill its promise of not allowing free movement of people, a red line.

It is Johnson et al who want a hard border on the island of Ireland to solve their own red line rhetoric about leaving the EU. They will be prepared to renege on an international agreement to save face. that is before they have the thorny issue of amending the Northern Ireland Act 1989 that stipulates that the ECJ will have jurisdiction over Northern Ireland' s law making powers at Stormont. This act was signed in conjunction with changes to the Irish constitution.

It is seeming more and more likely that the May government will renege on the GFA, voted for by 71% of people in the north, forced on her by Johnson et al and the DUP, then the Irish government will be forced to renew its constitutional claim for a united Ireland. Which in turn will lead to a vote in the North on uniting the island. The outcome of this is finely balanced so May could well be remembered as the Prime Minister that oversaw a united Ireland. May said yesterday, "“The draft legal text the Commission has published would, if implemented, undermine the United Kingdom common market and threaten the constitutional integrity of the United Kingdom by creating a custom and regulatory border down the Irish Sea.”, she agreed to this same thing in December but has been forced to change her mind. Not a good show to those countries outside the EU who the May government wants to talk trade deals with. They wouldn't get past first base. May is being pushed down the road to breaking up the 'constitutional integrity of the UK'. She is not up to the task, June election I suspect.
Click to expand...

I think you are wrong about Johnson wanting a hard border. It is in the UK’s interest to keep borders and trade free and open. This is an EU edict and the anti-Brexit politicians are just using the border as a way to undermine the U.K. leaving the EU. So far, the only people who have proposed a hard border are the EU.......
 
Caolam said:
The United Kingdom includes Northern Ireland we are the same place it is Great Britian and Northern Ireland that are different. Furthermore not only do you misunderstand the geography but you misunderstand my point, I see no problem with a soft border my issue is with a hard border.
However your willingness to put forward an opinion on something you seem to have little grasp of seems, to me, to dog the discussion on Brexit.
Furthermore it does appear to me to a somewhat strange position to adopt that Britian should take a vote to take back control of its borders and immediately give up control of its only land border with th EU, I find that strange.
Click to expand...

You seem to think that only those who live there can offer an opinion, so that should also rule out Brussels, anyone from the mainland of the U.K. and indeed the ROI. I disagree. I am glad you too wish to have a soft border, so that’s the U.K. and ROI wanting it, now we just need to convince the EU. You appear to both want both a soft border and want the U.K. to control its borders. Both of which can be done but not in the old way of fences and officers, technology already takes care of most of this and we just need the political troublemakers to calm down and stop using this issue to either force the U.K. into the customs union or to split NI from the rest of the U.K......
 
peteblue said:
You seem to think that only those who live there can offer an opinion, so that should also rule out Brussels, anyone from the mainland of the U.K. and indeed the ROI. I disagree. I am glad you too wish to have a soft border, so that’s the U.K. and ROI wanting it, now we just need to convince the EU. You appear to both want both a soft border and want the U.K. to control its borders. Both of which can be done but not in the old way of fences and officers, technology already takes care of most of this and we just need the political troublemakers to calm down and stop using this issue to either force the U.K. into the customs union or to split NI from the rest of the U.K......
Click to expand...

I have no issue of people proffering an opinion, however the weight that should be attached to that opinion has to be based on the knowledge the person offering the opinion has of the subject. The simple fact is that none of us know what the trading relationships will be so we cannot say with any certainty what form the border will take. I would much prefer to see things remain as they are today with no infrastructure on the border however I find it very difficult to see how this can be done when you have a frontier between one trading block and another. It was my understanding that the UK had agreed to regulatory compliance as a last resort to keep a soft border as the third option.
 
peteblue said:
There will not be a hard border, at least on the U.K. side, what the EU do is up to them.....
Click to expand...

Pete you keep saying this and it's simply not true.

If the UK leaves and defaults to WTO rules then the UK will be obliged by the WTO to have a border and formal customs arrangements.

I've previously linked statements to this fact from the WTO and discussed at length in the FT.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join the Everton conversation today.
Fewer ads, full access, completely free.

→ Log in 🔑 Register
🛒 Visit Shop

Support Grand Old Team by checking out our latest Everton gear!
Back
Top