Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

[peteblue]

Except history tells us that the strategy of “hard border” ends up on the streets of London, Pete.

Best take that memo back.

Because that way lies madness

There will not be a hard border, at least on the U.K. side, what the EU do is up to them.....

 

[peteblue]

No not SF, the entire peace process and 20 years of political progress.

And that’s what the EU are using. They are trying to create a problem, whereas the U.K. and ROI can manage themselves, on the altar of EU rules.......it’s purely a negotiating point.....

 

[peteblue]

This whole thing is starting to remind me of the great religious wars of the 16th and 17th century......when England had a dispute with some other great European colonial power, France or Spain, and Ireland was a pawn in the game and suffered as a consequence.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

How was Ireland a pawn and how was it resolved.....

 

[electricblue]

This whole thing is starting to remind me of the great religious wars of the 16th and 17th century......when England had a dispute with some other great European colonial power, France or Spain, and Ireland was a pawn in the game and suffered as a consequence.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

The main difference being that back then we struggled to get help from the likes of France and Italy, whereas now we are one member of a block of 27 negotiating with 1.

It make a huge difference knowing that you have them on your side and negotiating on your behalf despite these pro-Brexit people trying to separate us from the rest of the block. I'm not sure they even realise what they are up against.

 

[Khalekan]

No not SF, the entire peace process and 20 years of political progress.

Yes, but that small fact is of little consequence to rabid Brexiteers.

As the great Irish patriot Theobald Wolfe Tone once said.....”England, that never ending source of all our ills”.

And how pertinent more than two centuries later........the people of Northern Ireland voted to Remain but because of the schism in the Tory Party over Europe dating back decades their still developing consensus society is put at risk.

 

[peteblue]

The main difference being that back then we struggled to get help from the likes of France and Italy, whereas now we are one member of a block of 27 negotiating with 1.

It make a huge difference knowing that you have them on your side and negotiating on your behalf despite these pro-Brexit people trying to separate us from the rest of the block. I'm not sure they even realise what they are up against.

Wow, are you really fighting the wars of yesterday.......

 

[Khalekan]

How was Ireland a pawn and how was it resolved.....

It hasn’t been.

As you are seeing now before your very eyes

 

[peteblue]

Yes, but that small fact is of little consequence to rabid Brexiteers.

As the great Irish patriot Theobald Wolfe Tone once said.....”England, that never ending source of all our ills”.

And how pertinent more than two centuries later........the people of Northern Ireland voted to Remain but because of the schism in the Tory Party over Europe dating back decades their still developing consensus society is put at risk.

But it’s very simple, if the whole of Ireland wishes to have nothing to do with ‘England’, then just do it, no one is stopping you, it will save us a fortune, just do it........

 

[peteblue]

It hasn’t been.

As you are seeing now before your very eyes

What, a pawn or resolved.....

 

[peteblue]

The main difference being that back then we struggled to get help from the likes of France and Italy, whereas now we are one member of a block of 27 negotiating with 1.

It make a huge difference knowing that you have them on your side and negotiating on your behalf despite these pro-Brexit people trying to separate us from the rest of the block. I'm not sure they even realise what they are up against.

So basically you are saying unless we have a few big mates fighting for us.......sums you up really......

 

[electricblue]

Seems someone has been to the pub and has had one too many again.

 

[Ruairi77]

But if we, the U.K. do not put a hard border in place, what is different from today ?......

If you dont have a hard border there would be no regulation of trading between one economic block and the other. Again, the likes of Newry or Dundalk would be economically wiped out depending on which market is stronger. This would happen to towns all along the border. The smuggling and blackmarket rackets would actually be far easier than with a hard border. This would lead to a huge increase in social issues. You could quite easily have a situation where the UK has far cheaper prices for goods than the EU, this economically cripples Dundalk, Clones, Sligo, Letterkenny etc. As these towns hit economic hard times, they become awash with drugs and anti social behavior as the easiest way to make money is on the black market.
So yea, an open border, the way it is, between two economic blocks would be disastrous for one side at any given time.

 

[peteblue]

It hasn’t been.

As you are seeing now before your very eyes

A pawn or resolved?......

 

[Ruairi77]

There will not be a hard border, at least on the U.K. side, what the EU do is up to them.....

there won't be a hard border because NI will be in the same trading block as the rest of the island. If Brexit has any chance, this will have to happen. of course the DUP will likely bring down the government over it but they won't be king makers in the next government.
Good luck explaining to the Scots why they cant still remain in the single market.

 

[peteblue]

If you dont have a hard border there would be no regulation of trading between one economic block and the other. Again, the likes of Newry or Dundalk would be economically wiped out depending on which market is stronger. This would happen to towns all along the border. The smuggling and blackmarket rackets would actually be far easier than with a hard border. This would lead to a huge increase in social issues. You could quite easily have a situation where the UK has far cheaper prices for goods than the EU, this economically cripples Dundalk, Clones, Sligo, Letterkenny etc. As these towns hit economic hard times, they become awash with drugs and anti social behavior as the easiest way to make money is on the black market.
So yea, an open border, the way it is, between two economic blocks would be disastrous for one side at any given time.

I think the ROI will suffer because of EU intransigence, NI will of course be helped by the U.K. but I’m not sure that the ROI will get the same level of support from the EU.......