Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

[roydo]

There will be a frontier that trade will be obliged to pass through. Be that 5 or 10 miles from the border it is still a physical manifestation of what the GFA was meant to ensure never happened again.

Our learned friend @Khalekan made a brilliant post the other day as to the likely location of these posts and I’m sure he’d be happy to share it again

Yeah, I read it, and it was great. The point I am making, badly it seems, is that after a pretty short period of time, no one will notice. There wont be a border, well there will, but it will be as is.

Or maybe I have read the stuff totally wrong.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

Why? You do realise that random checks on imports into the UK, or anywhere else for that matter, do happen anyrate?

If the symbolism of an open border on Ireland is maintained as it currently is, and if cursory custom checks are done at source or in a car park miles away, whats the problem?

Like are wagons of Guiness going to be flagged? Wont happen.

@davek has called this right.

There is no visible border now and that is how it must remain or the peace process is in severe danger. I guarantee you that any customs post will require police and/or military support. The head of the PSNI admitted this today.

We have all worked too hard to avoid this scenario.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

Yeah, I read it, and it was great. The point I am making, badly it seems, is that after a pretty short period of time, no one will notice. There wont be a border, well there will, but it will be as is.

Or maybe I have read the stuff totally wrong.

You are off in your thinking @roydo.

Those Customs points will not get a short period of time, they will immediately be seen as a betrayal of the GFA and a clear message that nothing has changed.

 

[Khalekan]

There will be a frontier that trade will be obliged to pass through. Be that 5 or 10 miles from the border it is still a physical manifestation of what the GFA was meant to ensure never happened again.

Our learned friend @Khalekan made a brilliant post the other day as to the likely location of these posts and I’m sure he’d be happy to share it again

lol


I probably couldn’t find it now but it probably wouldn’t mean much to Roydo as he would not recognise the nuances nor even have heard of most of the towns

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

Why? You do realise that random checks on imports into the UK, or anywhere else for that matter, do happen anyrate?

If the symbolism of an open border on Ireland is maintained as it currently is, and if cursory custom checks are done at source or in a car park miles away, whats the problem?

Like are wagons of Guiness going to be flagged? Wont happen.

Quite simply the problem is that British government promised in 2017 that there would be NO customs checks on the island of Ireland in recognition that this would damage the all island economy, which is a central plank of the GFA.

Johnson's proposals drive a coach and horses through this which why they will be rejected by the EU after a short period of diplomatic nicety.

Unfortunately the present path that is being followed by the UK government is causing a rise in resentment towards the UK both in Ireland and elsewhere in Europe, and yet we have people in this very thread wondering why Ireland doesn't want to rejoin the UK. The lack of understanding about what is actually going on here is incredulous.

 

[Khalekan]

Strange goings on today.

First up.....where is the normally ubiquitous Samuel A Tache this past few days since the DUP agreed to a more comprehensive Single Market scenario than the previously touted merely live animals and foodstuffs?

He is their “Brexit spokesman” but I have seen hide nor hair of him on TV.

Then there is their strange absence from Westminster today when Johnson announced his proposals to the House.

Where were they?

Why, they were at Stormont.

When asked why they were there, Mr. Jeffrey Donaldson MP said they were there trying “ to get this place up and running again”.

Really?

Why would all ten DUP MPs need to be at Stormont to discuss a legislature which is outside their purview?

Particularly when Johnson desperately needed friendly faces across the aisle.

And who were they talking to?

Sinn Fein were not there so they were not talking to the only people who can help them get Stormont up and running.

So I am wondering if there is trouble at t’ DUP mill.

Is Sammy Tache at odds with Deputy Dodds over Johnson’s plan?

I also think what they have agreed to so far is a staging post on the way to the complete acceptance of the NI only Backstop when Johnson goes to Brussels in a fortnight.

Because that fellow dies not intend dying in a ditch

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

I've used that main road frequently and its impossible to remember which jurisdiction you are in - you cross the border 5 times when going in either direction.

Good luck with the customs posts Johnners.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

Strange goings on today.

First up.....where is the normally ubiquitous Samuel A Tache this past few days since the DUP agreed to a more comprehensive Single Market scenario than the previously touted merely live animals and foodstuffs?

He is their “Brexit spokesman” but I have seen hide nor hair of him on TV.

Then there is their strange absence from Westminster today when Johnson announced his proposals to the House.

Where were they?

Why, they were at Stormont.

When asked why they were there, Mr. Jeffrey Donaldson MP said they were there trying “ to get this place up and running again”.

Really?

Why would all ten DUP MPs need to be at Stormont to discuss a legislature which is outside their purview?

Particularly when Johnson desperately needed friendly faces across the aisle.

And who were they talking to?

Sinn Fein were not there so they were not talking to the only people who can help them get Stormont up and running.

So I am wondering if there is trouble at t’ DUP mill.

Is Sammy Tache at odds with Deputy Dodds over Johnson’s plan?

I also think what they have agreed to so far is a staging post on the way to the complete acceptance of the NI only Backstop when Johnson goes to Brussels in a fortnight.

Because that fellow dies not intend dying in a ditch

Yes something doesn't smell right.

Jim 'not an inch' Allison was on TV last night giving them hell for budging a few millimetres. And one of them said last night that they would 'never agree to staying in the Single Market' but I'm nearly sure they have done just that.

Perhaps they are deservedly getting What For from their constituents and the NI business community.

Big Arl is currently on a media blitz here blaming the Irish government for everything.

Hopefully a DUP split is on the horizon. *fingers crossed*

 

[Armaghtoffee]

That is the road I take whenever Ard Mhacha are playing Cavan. It is definitely one of the best examples of the the unsolvable intricacies of the British border.

 

[catcherintherye]

I can’t see it honestly. Putting all politics aside, Boris is just too big for Corbyn. May made a humongous mistake and made it worse by making it about herself, while Corbyn enjoyed his new found fame. Boris is different and everyone knows it.....

I don't see it Pete. I was wrong about May, I thought she would be a good leader.

Lets be fair though, I said Johnsons decisions to prorogue Parliament would backfire and it has spectacularly. He's lost Churchill grandson and the longest serving MP. The Queen has apparently looked into sacking him (one more stunt and he's done with her).

I'd also say, the fella is very ordinary at the campaigning stuff. There have been about half a dozen occasions where he has met the public and been stood gormless when they challenge him. There is a certain whit to his approach, but it doesn't translate well to news bulletins and short clips. I'd go as far as to say he's actually worse than Corbyn at that sort of stuff (which does take some doing).

I think I went on record here saying Johnson is the leader Labour should want, and nothing has changed that, only re-enforced it.Even with most of the Labour MP's working against their leader, Johnson can't seem to score an open goal against a pensioner in opposition.

If you want my gut feeling, Johnson will be gone quite shortly after Brexit (or October 31st.) Say what you wan about the Conservative Party but they are a ruthlessly efficient winning machine and the upper echelons will see he's served his purpose. I can't see them allowing him to lead them into an election. The defeat Corbyn by looking sound and competent, not invoking their inner lunatic.

In all honesty I would be much bolder in this, but his one saving grace is that the Labour Party PLP seem to have no understanding about politics or Brexit (or acknowledgement Brexit remains popular) and openly seem on a kamikaze mission. That's the best weapon Johnson has in this. It's re-enforced by Corbyn refusing to take any action against them.

In a roundabout wayI'd agree with what Dave says, hung Parliament with Johnson losing the Conservatives a huge share of votes. Watch Swinson too, she'll get many of them.

 

[catcherintherye]

Yes something doesn't smell right.

Jim 'not an inch' Allison was on TV last night giving them hell for budging a few millimetres. And one of them said last night that they would 'never agree to staying in the Single Market' but I'm nearly sure they have done just that.

Perhaps they are deservedly getting What For from their constituents and the NI business community.

Big Arl is currently on a media blitz here blaming the Irish government for everything.

Hopefully a DUP split is on the horizon. *fingers crossed*

A DUP split would spell disaster for Unionist politics in the North.

 

[dublinbluenose]

Strange goings on today.

First up.....where is the normally ubiquitous Samuel A Tache this past few days since the DUP agreed to a more comprehensive Single Market scenario than the previously touted merely live animals and foodstuffs?

He is their “Brexit spokesman” but I have seen hide nor hair of him on TV.

Then there is their strange absence from Westminster today when Johnson announced his proposals to the House.

Where were they?

Why, they were at Stormont.

When asked why they were there, Mr. Jeffrey Donaldson MP said they were there trying “ to get this place up and running again”.

Really?

Why would all ten DUP MPs need to be at Stormont to discuss a legislature which is outside their purview?

Particularly when Johnson desperately needed friendly faces across the aisle.

And who were they talking to?

Sinn Fein were not there so they were not talking to the only people who can help them get Stormont up and running.

So I am wondering if there is trouble at t’ DUP mill.

Is Sammy Tache at odds with Deputy Dodds over Johnson’s plan?

I also think what they have agreed to so far is a staging post on the way to the complete acceptance of the NI only Backstop when Johnson goes to Brussels in a fortnight.

Because that fellow dies not intend dying in a ditch

This is and has always been the only way out of this mess. NI will have best of both worlds and we can move on to the rest of this crapshow on the future arrangements. We can also start dealing with domestic politics and put some scrutiny on this awful FG Government.

DUP will take a hammering at the next GE hopefully. The North really could do with a big gain for Alliance or Greens.

 

[Bluerover]

I've used that main road frequently and its impossible to remember which jurisdiction you are in - you cross the border 5 times when going in either direction.

Good luck with the customs posts Johnners.

In Nov 84to Jan 85 I lived in Cavan town and worked in Clones. I always used that road!!

Back then I got my petrol in the North as it was much cheaper. Today the reverse applies and has done for years.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

Jeffrey Donaldson getting ripped to shreds on BBC NI at the moment. Never before seen him looking so uncomfortable.

Compulsive viewing. lol

 

[thirdmantackle]

You cannot have a customs and excise border without having a physical border between the two systems.

The DUP have been trying to dismantle the GFA since its inception.

And not wanting to be part of the UK is not anti British.
The EU is a far superior system and market for the likes of Ireland who has a very open economy. We're treated as an equal member in the bloc.
As a nation we were ruled by England for 700+ years. Then we were split in two and controlled by the British economy for almost 100 years.
Most Irish people are happy to be independent from that.
We also cannot understand what Brexit is all about tbh