Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

[Harryflashman]

It’s everyone’s fault except SF. The whole of the EU is being held to ransom by the potential violence they may reintroduce, but let’s ignore that.....

Plenty of people telling the government if they don’t give them the Brexit they want there will be public disorder . Those threats appear with alarming regularity so it looks like holding to ransom by the threat of potential violence is proving pretty popular this year .

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

It’s everyone’s fault except SF. The whole of the EU is being held to ransom by the potential violence they may reintroduce, but let’s ignore that.....

Absolutley clueless comment which exposes your complete lack of understanding of Irish affairs.

There is no threat of violence from SF, none whatsoever. In fact they are usually the first to condemn any action by dissidents because it interferes with their peace strategy.

To quote @Emlynsqueakyvoice, laughable.

 

[Khalekan]

It’s everyone’s fault except SF.....

I have selectively quoted that line Peter because I totally agree with that sentiment.

Sinn Fein’s strategy throughout this entire fiasco had left me bemused and angry.

They want to blame the British government, the DUP, the Irish government and bizarrely, I saw posters up on walls when in Belfast a few months ago lumping some Independent Socialist councillor in Belfast City Hall with the others they blame for Brexit.

They adhere rigidly to a 19th century dogma of “abstenionism” devised by Hungarian separatists to defy the Habsburg Empire in Vienna which has.allowed their supposedly arch rivals in the DUP to present itself as the authentic voice of Ulster (six counties of) and wield more influence than it should have in the numbers game at Westminster.

The DUP and Sinn Fein are two cheeks on the same derrière.......both happy with a hard border, despite what they say in public, for totally different reasons but the net result will be the same.

Misery and disruption to life for people living and working along the Border and the inevitable return of violent resistance to it, as the former Chief of Police in NI has pointed out.

A Belfast businesman, Mr. Bill Worsley, made a great quote this week....in relation to the DUP, led by Ms. Foster and Sinn Fein , led by Ms. McDonald and Ms. O’Neill refusing to sort out their differences over Brexit and the restoration of the Stormont Assembly.

He said.....”the men of violence have been replaced by the women of intransigence”.

 

[peteblue]

Absolutley clueless comment which exposes your complete lack of understanding of Irish affairs.

There is no threat of violence from SF, none whatsoever. In fact they are usually the first to condemn any action by dissidents because it interferes with their peace strategy.

To quote @Emlynsqueakyvoice, laughable.

If there was no threat of violence from SF then exactly what is the problem. Why do people keep going on about return to violence.....you need to grow up and call people for what they are. There are real people of violence in Ireland, ignoring them doesn’t do it. No one wants any kind of violence in NI, but if it happens, where do you think it will come from.....

 

[peteblue]

Plenty of people telling the government if they don’t give them the Brexit they want there will be public disorder . Those threats appear with alarming regularity so it looks like holding to ransom by the threat of potential violence is proving pretty popular this year .

Indeed, but we also know that it won’t happen, and if anything did then the authorities would just pick them up. I also happen to believe that we now have more than enough spooks and informants and GCHQ technology to intercept phones, cctv and internet to close down any terrorist group. We have moved on over the last twenty odd years. We don’t need to fear people of terror, we just need everyone to accept that they need to be removed.....

 

[Taifi gorm]

It's funny that SF are prominent in that photo
They've been stirring up way too much agro about a united Ireland
They need to remind themselves of the long game

Whilst SF may appear prominent in the pictures the event, how tacky is McDonald by the way, wasn't theirs to own. Many of the speakers, public figures and those attending would be traditionally SDLP and others something that was stressed repeatedly to the press but hasn't transferred to the narrative.
Besides is it not SFs job to push for a united Ireland what other long game are they supposed to be playing if not presenting it as an alternative to brexit. If the dup response to that is to back themselves into a cul-de-sac again then that's for them to navigate and provide alternatives.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

If there was no threat of violence from SF then exactly what is the problem. Why do people keep going on about return to violence.....you need to grow up and call people for what they are. There are real people of violence in Ireland, ignoring them doesn’t do it. No one wants any kind of violence in NI, but if it happens, where do you think it will come from.....

1) There is a threat from dissent republicans. SF are not dissident republicans.
2) Because it is real. See earlier post with comments from former PSNI Chief Constable. Sorry it doesn't fit in with your desire for a no deal Brexit.
3) It is you who needs to grow up and accept your responsibilities which you are obligated to do under an international peace treaty.

 

[Taifi gorm]

If there was no threat of violence from SF then exactly what is the problem. Why do people keep going on about return to violence.....you need to grow up and call people for what they are. There are real people of violence in Ireland, ignoring them doesn’t do it. No one wants any kind of violence in NI, but if it happens, where do you think it will come from.....

Are you trolling or naive enough to fail to grasp what nationalist people had to overcome to achieve parity of esteem within their homeland to now expect them to willingly relinquish those rights to the same community that denied them, now denies that they ever denied them, who's leading party has a mandate to undermine the treaties ensuring them, all while refusing to guarantee a continuation of the status quo whilst reneging on promises during negotiations.
This is a conflict zone that is in effect under an entente cordiale a hard border undermines this the unionists will see it as a triumph the nationalists a betrayal. Any customs force will be overwhelmingly unionist, a British passport was required for application and nationalists will not apply to monitor their neighbours. Now to have one community, which has a history of abusing power, from a conflict monitor and control the movement of the other community whether physically or technological (undoubtedly both) is an explosive cocktail. That is what people are warning of.
The question is how brexiteers who which to avoid chaos have not turned on the toxicity of the dup and questioned their selective Britishness or do they believe in the dups vision of a Britain of inequality. It's clear the ERG vultures see them as a useful pawn.
Personally if Britain choses to leave the EU fine then they should be careful, mature, (particularly the parliament in Westminster and its leadership) honest and sincere in their actions. Division driven by reckless jingoism and vulture capitalism should not now be the primary motivations.

 

[gonetomorrow]

Maybe it's time the good people of Northern Ireland stopped chucking bombs at each other and grew up.

Then the border issue might not be such a big deal.

 

[peteblue]

1) There is a threat from dissent republicans. SF are not dissident republicans.
2) Because it is real. See earlier post with comments from former PSNI Chief Constable. Sorry it doesn't fit in with your desire for a no deal Brexit.
3) It is you who needs to grow up and accept your responsibilities which you are obligated to do under an international peace treaty.

Not really. As I’ve said, I believe we now have the capability and technology to defeat any terrorist organisation. This is not the 60’s anymore. Whoever does whatever will be defeated and apprehended. With your support of course......

 

[peteblue]

Maybe it's time the good people of Northern Ireland stopped chucking bombs at each other and grew up.

Then the border issue might not be such a big deal.

That would be nice wouldn’t it......

 

[peteblue]

Are you trolling or naive enough to fail to grasp what nationalist people had to overcome to achieve parity of esteem within their homeland to now expect them to willingly relinquish those rights to the same community that denied them, now denies that they ever denied them, who's leading party has a mandate to undermine the treaties ensuring them, all while refusing to guarantee a continuation of the status quo whilst reneging on promises during negotiations.
This is a conflict zone that is in effect under an entente cordiale a hard border undermines this the unionists will see it as a triumph the nationalists a betrayal. Any customs force will be overwhelmingly unionist, a British passport was required for application and nationalists will not apply to monitor their neighbours. Now to have one community, which has a history of abusing power, from a conflict monitor and control the movement of the other community whether physically or technological (undoubtedly both) is an explosive cocktail. That is what people are warning of.
The question is how brexiteers who which to avoid chaos have not turned on the toxicity of the dup and questioned their selective Britishness or do they believe in the dups vision of a Britain of inequality. It's clear the ERG vultures see them as a useful pawn.
Personally if Britain choses to leave the EU fine then they should be careful, mature, (particularly the parliament in Westminster and its leadership) honest and sincere in their actions. Division driven by reckless jingoism and vulture capitalism should not now be the primary motivations.

I think you are part of the problem.....

 

[Harryflashman]

Not really. As I’ve said, I believe we now have the capability and technology to defeat any terrorist organisation. This is not the 60’s anymore. Whoever does whatever will be defeated and apprehended. With your support of course......

I think you’re a bit naive if you think we have the technology and capabilities to defeat any terrorist organisation to be honest. Technology has certainly improved but we have still had terrorist attacks in the U.K. in recent years and the Muslim extremists we’ve predominantly had problems with have neither the experience not the resources that we’d encounter from resurgent Republicans.

Terrorism is incredibly difficult to combat and examples of it being ‘defeated’ are far and few between ,hence why the GFA was so important . The security services/CT police have a very decent reputation but the idea that using technology we can remove a problem is as I said in my opinion naive . Let’s not forget We’ve still had dissident republican attacks and it’s not even 20 years ago since they fired an RPG at Mi6 itself . Technology has its place but it’s not magic , it still needs people to direct , use and analyse it not to mention boots on the ground . I personally have no desire to lose any friends nor to have any of the countries involved disrupted and attacked in a manner I’m sure many of us remember.

I’m hopeful for a number of reasons we won’t find ourselves transported back into the troubles but I’m not prepared to dismiss any concerns because of GCHQ or whatever other high tech equipment you think will make the difference.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

Maybe it's time the good people of Northern Ireland stopped chucking bombs at each other and grew up.

Then the border issue might not be such a big deal.

Possibly the most naive post of this whole thread.

 

[peteblue]

Possibly the most naive post of this whole thread.

It was possibly the most sane post in the thread.....