Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

[Eggs]

There'd be plenty of Blairite scabs to get her budget a majority. The last thing they want is a Labour government led by Corbyn.

The trouble for May then is that she'd effectiveley declare herself unable to govern the country via her own party and scores of Tories would see a reaching out to LP MPs (even though they are scabs and as wedded to the free market and austerity as they are) as an act of treason. She'd be knifed in the front back and sides and forced out of office. THEN comes the interesting part: a new Tory PM with no mandate from the people or the vast majority of their own party. That cant stand and then we're into unchartered waters given that these are now fixed term parliaments. The smart money though surely has to be a GE sooner rather than later. The country is a basket case politically speaking - and the tail wagging the dog right now with those Ulster Unionist knuckledraggers calling the shots underlines what a basket case it is - and that cant be allowed to carry on.

..not sure if I would use your rhetoric, but I agree that a GE is a distinct possibility. Even with a number of pro-Brexit Labour MPs it’s difficult to see May ultimately getting a deal through the Commons.

 

[Khalekan]

...I think I would challenge the point; ‘..most people over here believe Ireland is one single jurisdiction anyway’. I would think the vast majority are aware of the Governance difference, even at a high-level.

Apologies if i’ve misread the quote.

No, you read read the quote properly, Eggs.

We shall just have to differ on this point

 

[davek]

..not sure if I would use your rhetoric, but I agree that a GE is a distinct possibility. Even with a number of pro-Brexit Labour MPs it’s difficult to see May ultimately getting a deal through the Commons.

Well, the budget comes before Brexit. It'll rightly be seen as a dry run for her to see if she can get her Chequers deal through later.

 

[Alan Whittle]

You’re probably right, the EU, unlike the U.K. has suffered terribly because of the troubles and obviously fully understands the issues.......

I seem to remember that Warrington, Manchester, London, Guildford and Birmingham were all in the EU when targeted by Irish terrorists. You may glibly fulminate on technicalities but terrorism knows no boundaries.

 

[Caolam]

ive got 4 bottles of bushmills, the bog standard, black, 10 year and 12 year

the tens my favorite whisky

You are a very good man.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

DUP upping the ante again today:

The DUP has stepped up warnings to British Prime Minister Theresa May not to compromise over the border on the island of Ireland in her efforts to secure a Brexit deal.

Following three days of talks with key figures in Brussels, DUP leader Arlene Foster said Mrs May could not in "good conscience" accept the proposals currently on the table from the European Union. Her intervention came as Mrs May met key members of her cabinet in Downing Street to brief them on the progress in the Brexit negotiations.

The Prime Minister was reported to have played down the prospects of a breakthrough at next week's EU summit in Brussels, billed as the "moment of truth" by European Council president Donald Tusk.

"The Prime Minister is a unionist. "Many of her cabinet colleagues have assured me of their unionism," she said. "Therefore, they could not in good conscience recommend a deal which places a trade barrier on United Kingdom businesses moving goods from one part of the Kingdom to another."

Mrs Foster's latest shot across the bows came after the party had earlier made clear that it would be prepared to vote against the Budget and other domestic legislation if Mrs May crossed their "red lines".

Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt insisted that ministers would not sign up up to any plan which compromised the territorial integrity of the UK by imposing a "border in the Irish Sea".

"The DUP's red lines are actually Theresa May's red lines," he told BBC News. "She has made it very, very clear that she will not allow there to be border down the Irish Sea, that the integrity of the United Kingdom must remain intact. "I know that she will never sign up to a Brexit deal that compromises our territorial integrity."

So it's all about territory then. Always was and always has been.

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

DUP upping the ante again today:

The DUP has stepped up warnings to British Prime Minister Theresa May not to compromise over the border on the island of Ireland in her efforts to secure a Brexit deal.

Following three days of talks with key figures in Brussels, DUP leader Arlene Foster said Mrs May could not in "good conscience" accept the proposals currently on the table from the European Union. Her intervention came as Mrs May met key members of her cabinet in Downing Street to brief them on the progress in the Brexit negotiations.

The Prime Minister was reported to have played down the prospects of a breakthrough at next week's EU summit in Brussels, billed as the "moment of truth" by European Council president Donald Tusk.

"The Prime Minister is a unionist. "Many of her cabinet colleagues have assured me of their unionism," she said. "Therefore, they could not in good conscience recommend a deal which places a trade barrier on United Kingdom businesses moving goods from one part of the Kingdom to another."

Mrs Foster's latest shot across the bows came after the party had earlier made clear that it would be prepared to vote against the Budget and other domestic legislation if Mrs May crossed their "red lines".

Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt insisted that ministers would not sign up up to any plan which compromised the territorial integrity of the UK by imposing a "border in the Irish Sea".

"The DUP's red lines are actually Theresa May's red lines," he told BBC News. "She has made it very, very clear that she will not allow there to be border down the Irish Sea, that the integrity of the United Kingdom must remain intact. "I know that she will never sign up to a Brexit deal that compromises our territorial integrity."

So it's all about territory then. Always was and always has been.

You're right Mark, it's always about territory. However, it's also about power. The Prime Minister is obviously a unionist, but she is also a realist, a pragmatist and an opportunist too. She will throw Arlene and her lot under the bus the second that it suits her. There is now only one solution in Ireland, which is the Irish Sea border. I have said it before and I'll say it again, the DUP will be bought off as they always are. The unionists are terrified of Corbyn and a GE, as are the Tories, but the unionists are expendable as I think that the entire Tory/establishment machine will mobilise against Corbyn at the next election, meaning that Arlene goes back to being irrelevant. I can honestly see May getting back in. The other factor for the unionists is the rise of Sinn Fein. They garner more votes at each election and there is now good reason to think that they will get more votes than the unionists at the next election. The unionists see this as endgame too. I agree with this assessment. They will not be the largest party in Northern Ireland very shortly and they know it. They need to play their cards very carefully now but they only know one way in negotiations, and that is the word 'no'. Their MPs are ridiculously out of touch with the real world, and any party that contains Wilson, Campbell, Foster, Paisley, Dodds and Donaldson is ultimately doomed. There is still no way around the Irish border issue that will satisfy everyone.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

You're right Mark, it's always about territory. However, it's also about power. The Prime Minister is obviously a unionist, but she is also a realist, a pragmatist and an opportunist too. She will throw Arlene and her lot under the bus the second that it suits her. There is now only one solution in Ireland, which is the Irish Sea border. I have said it before and I'll say it again, the DUP will be bought off as they always are. The unionists are terrified of Corbyn and a GE, as are the Tories, but the unionists are expendable as I think that the entire Tory/establishment machine will mobilise against Corbyn at the next election, meaning that Arlene goes back to being irrelevant. I can honestly see May getting back in. The other factor for the unionists is the rise of Sinn Fein. They garner more votes at each election and there is now good reason to think that they will get more votes than the unionists at the next election. The unionists see this as endgame too. I agree with this assessment. They will not be the largest party in Northern Ireland very shortly and they know it. They need to play their cards very carefully now but they only know one way in negotiations, and that is the word 'no'. Their MPs are ridiculously out of touch with the real world, and any party that contains Wilson, Campbell, Foster, Paisley, Dodds and Donaldson is ultimately doomed. There is still no way around the Irish border issue that will satisfy everyone.

You'd think that any party that needs to play its cards carefully would be looking to minimize the damage from Brexit. If they agreed to NI staying in the single market and customs union there would be a soft Brexit and the union with the UK would likely stay intact for the foreseeable future.

Instead they won't budge an inch, which will likely result in a hard Brexit (unless May does the honourable thing and calls their bluff - unlikely ) which will alienate the Scots and will increase the likelihood of the break up of the UK.

All you have to do is look at Sammy Wilson's 'tache to see what era the DUP are still living in.

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

You'd think that any party that needs to play its cards carefully would be looking to minimize the damage from Brexit. If they agreed to NI staying in the single market and customs union there would be a soft Brexit and the union with the UK would likely stay intact for the foreseeable future.

Instead they won't budge an inch, which will likely result in a hard Brexit (unless May does the honourable thing and calls their bluff - unlikely ) which will alienate the Scots and will increase the likelihood of the break up of the UK.

All you have to do is look at Sammy Wilson's 'tache to see what era the DUP are still living in.

And still they march into oblivion........

That 'tache' shout is great btw

 

[Khalekan]

You're right Mark, it's always about territory. However, it's also about power. The Prime Minister is obviously a unionist, but she is also a realist, a pragmatist and an opportunist too. She will throw Arlene and her lot under the bus the second that it suits her. There is now only one solution in Ireland, which is the Irish Sea border. I have said it before and I'll say it again, the DUP will be bought off as they always are. The unionists are terrified of Corbyn and a GE, as are the Tories, but the unionists are expendable as I think that the entire Tory/establishment machine will mobilise against Corbyn at the next election, meaning that Arlene goes back to being irrelevant. I can honestly see May getting back in. The other factor for the unionists is the rise of Sinn Fein. They garner more votes at each election and there is now good reason to think that they will get more votes than the unionists at the next election. The unionists see this as endgame too. I agree with this assessment. They will not be the largest party in Northern Ireland very shortly and they know it. They need to play their cards very carefully now but they only know one way in negotiations, and that is the word 'no'. Their MPs are ridiculously out of touch with the real world, and any party that contains Wilson, Campbell, Foster, Paisley, Dodds and Donaldson is ultimately doomed. There is still no way around the Irish border issue that will satisfy everyone.

I have to disagree there, Emlyn.

Far from posing the DUP any problems, the rise of Sinn Fein is what is actually empowering the DUP, giving them this leverage they have in Westminster.

And will continue to do so if this era of tight or hung parliaments continues.

Twenty years ago the likes of John Hume and Seamus Mallon would have been in parliament and in the TV studios putting forward a viewpoint supporting the very generous offer Mr. Barnier has nade to NI over the Single Market and Customs Union, a move welcomed wholeheartedly by the NI branch if the CBI......instead of this constant stream of DUP heads strutting around and claiming to speak on behalf of the people of NI.

And the current crop of Sinn Fein leaders are pretty underwhelming and as far as I can see are of absolutely no use to the Irish people, particularly in the Six Counties, as this process reaches its crescendo.

Michelle O’Neill is no Martin McGuinness, that’s for sure.

 

[Khalekan]

You'd think that any party that needs to play its cards carefully would be looking to minimize the damage from Brexit. If they agreed to NI staying in the single market and customs union there would be a soft Brexit and the union with the UK would likely stay intact for the foreseeable future.

Instead they won't budge an inch, which will likely result in a hard Brexit (unless May does the honourable thing and calls their bluff - unlikely ) which will alienate the Scots and will increase the likelihood of the break up of the UK.

All you have to do is look at Sammy Wilson's 'tache to see what era the DUP are still living in.

He would need to grow mutton chops to really reflect his era, Mark

 

[MarkK1988]

You are a very good man.

did we just become best friends!

 

[peteblue]

I seem to remember that Warrington, Manchester, London, Guildford and Birmingham were all in the EU when targeted by Irish terrorists. You may glibly fulminate on technicalities but terrorism knows no boundaries.

I think you will find they are all in the U.K. not the EU......

 

[Charlie Sweet]

It depends on how you look at it I suppose.......how could anyone oppose the ROI remaining in the EU while being part of the U.K. Its a golden ticket. It’s just not an acceptable political position.......

Think this was missed Pete. Are you suggesting above that the Republic of Ireland should willingly become a part of the UK? Seriously...….

...seems the DUP are threatening to vote against the Budget if there is an indication any of their ‘red lines’ are being crossed.

It could get interesting.

Let's be clear with terminology. The are BLOOD red lines. How wonderfully poised for the largest party of a province ravaged by violence for a recent 30-year period to act in this way.

You'd think that any party that needs to play its cards carefully would be looking to minimize the damage from Brexit. If they agreed to NI staying in the single market and customs union there would be a soft Brexit and the union with the UK would likely stay intact for the foreseeable future.

Instead they won't budge an inch, which will likely result in a hard Brexit (unless May does the honourable thing and calls their bluff - unlikely ) which will alienate the Scots and will increase the likelihood of the break up of the UK.

All you have to do is look at Sammy Wilson's 'tache to see what era the DUP are still living in.

Exactly. The DUP could have taken a lead and talk up maximising Northern Ireland's potential of being part of both common markets whilst still firmly British. If ever there was an argument for them against a United Ireland it'd be something like that. But then yes, given their talent at the top table - and remember those that have slipped away in recent years were often even worse..

 

[Charlie Sweet]

I have to disagree there, Emlyn.

Far from posing the DUP any problems, the rise of Sinn Fein is what is actually empowering the DUP, giving them this leverage they have in Westminster.

And will continue to do so if this era of tight or hung parliaments continues.

Twenty years ago the likes of John Hume and Seamus Mallon would have been in parliament and in the TV studios putting forward a viewpoint supporting the very generous offer Mr. Barnier has nade to NI over the Single Market and Customs Union, a move welcomed wholeheartedly by the NI branch if the CBI......instead of this constant stream of DUP heads strutting around and claiming to speak on behalf of the people of NI.

And the current crop of Sinn Fein leaders are pretty underwhelming and as far as I can see are of absolutely no use to the Irish people, particularly in the Six Counties, as this process reaches its crescendo.

Michelle O’Neill is no Martin McGuinness, that’s for sure.

Agree with this. It's the downside of the province between divide and rule now between orange and green. The middle ground is wrecked.