Current Affairs Iran

[Pettifogger]

Everyone knows he was a bad person, but people are questioning whether it will be worth the fallout. As posted above they’ve had the capability to do this for decades. Why now and what calculation of the consequences was done before? If a similarly high ranking US government or military official was taken out like that you’d expect a heavy retaliation

We're in Iraq, rightly or wrongly, and he was actively moving against the US (not merely US interests) in Iraq. The factual circumstances "justifying" the act in a bubble are easy to spot. But, sure, whether it's a wise move in the longterm is an open question. Of course, the discussion begs the question of "If we'd restrained ourselves for decades, and he was actively working to kill US citizens in 2019 - how well is that restraint working out?" I'm quite genuinely not giving that as a full justification, because I simply don't know whether it was the right thing to do or not.

But I don't think "why didn't someone else do it before now" should be necessarily viewed as "wise people made wise decisions in the past."

 

[Deleted member 48881]

Is right Elizabeth

 

[Pettifogger]

Plenty of you, I.e the public, but not all. And certainly not at official levels

Eh, some of the public wouldn't. But officials would know. They might still retaliate, but deep down they'd know.

Do I want revenge for roadside bombings in Afghanistan that kill US troops? Of course. Do I think Afghanistan arguably opened that can of worms by harboring terrorists plotting against America? I do. Do I understand why the Taliban might lash out at the intrusion to their sovereignty? Of course. Do I think we created a significant part of the environment that lead to the entire debacle by fighting a proxy war against the USSR? Yes. Do I blame the USSR for that? Yes, in part.

And so on and so forth.

 

[Pettifogger]

Find me one credible person saying Solemani wasnt that bad.
The big fear here is that, as with Iraq and Afghanistan, there is no strategy.
Also, this is just the next step on a path Trump took us down when he withdrew from the nuclear deal. No one has any idea where this path leads and that's the fear. The majority of Americans don't trust the commander and chief.

The CIC is likely going to be reelected.

 

[peteblue]

Is right Elizabeth

It is a pity more of these commentators and politicians didn’t denounce the attack upon the US Embassy. Corbyn and co didn’t raise any concerns about attacks against the USA, just when they retaliate.....

 

[Ruairi77]

The CIC is likely going to be reelected.

if he is, it'll be by a minority again.

 

[Pettifogger]

if he is, it'll be by a minority again.

Perhaps. I do think you overestimate the angst over the President's leadership.

Perhaps there should be more, but I don't think there is. I don't say that to place confidence in Trump, although there are some arguments for that too, but rather to emphasize the apathy toward foreign affairs and the importance (lack thereof) in the election cycle.

That's why it's funny that people are making Wag the Dog references (great movie BTW). Trump has plenty of reason to focus on the domestic rather than the foreign.

 

[Zezti]

This aged well...

 

[Ruairi77]

Perhaps. I do think you overestimate the angst over the President's leadership.

Perhaps there should be more, but I don't think there is. I don't say that to place confidence in Trump, although there are some arguments for that too, but rather to emphasize the apathy toward foreign affairs and the importance (lack thereof) in the election cycle.

That's why it's funny that people are making Wag the Dog references (great movie BTW). Trump has plenty of reason to focus on the domestic rather than the foreign.

Trump is a master of distraction. It's fairly clear, with the leaving of the agreement, that he's had this cued up for a while.
I never mentioned angst over Trump, though I do believe that there isnt enough angst but there definitely is a lack of trust.
Half the mans inner circle are in prison and the other half are manipulating him for their own ends.
He doesn't have the temperament to see this through safely. All he can do now is spin it so that he hasn't stumbled in to a foreign policy nightmare.

 

[bol-uk]

This aged well...

Wow

 

[Zatara]

I've not disputed any of these points and the main actor targeted has been known as such as you describe for 3 decades.

The questions of the moment are why now, why were Congress and our allies bypassed and was this action wise?

The US is quite capable of taking out any number of bad actors around the world. The ability to do so must be measured against the expected fallout from those directly impacted as well as the international community - which is why successive US and Israeli administrations refrained from doing what was done last night.

So youre asking if Congress should be convened and allies notified when there is a chance to take out an enemy combatant (which is what they were) without any risk to civilian life?

They took the opportunity and they got him!

Some will claim this is US taking unauthorized action and engaging in international meddling. Many of those claims are just empty anti-American attitudes or anti-Trump blustering. "By what authority?" people will scream as they ignore that the architect of thousands of deaths needed no such authority to engage in his war crimes and yet these same speakers were largely silent about that.

Of course, one can certainly go back decades to rehash American meddling in the Middle East and lay blame on the US for continually building to events like this. I guess the argument would be that this cycle of strife has to be stopped at some point and that even if there is a strong argument for killing Soleimani, it's only going to start another cycle of conflict. I think that's a credible position, but it's attenuated and not black and white so most people won't be making it. Rather, it'll be Trump/US are evil and war criminal Soleimani wasn't that bad - a silly product of our time.

I take no issue with his killing and decline to call it an assassination. He was a war criminal actively engaging in military activities in a foreign land, and was directly engaging in warfare against the United States. I am concerned about what happens next - not about retaliation, but whether we'll be dragged into another quagmire where the objectives grow less obvious month by month.

Thats spot on.

I’m surprised just how badly you e fallen for the rhetoric here. Who are the baddies? Iran who were willing to come in from the cold and signed a deal basically pushing for this with Obama (which was torn up by trump/Israel) or the country with bases all over the middle east (and indeed the world) that has invaded 23 countries since the war?!?!

Is this the same Iran who imprisons westerners for years under the guise of them being apparent spies?

Come on mate...

Fighting ISIS in the land they wanted to take control of to get it away from other religious groups they want to murder and have murdered along with US troops in the same war.

Is right Elizabeth

Shes off her head. How about them attacking a US embassy only a few days ago???

It is a pity more of these commentators and politicians didn’t denounce the attack upon the US Embassy. Corbyn and co didn’t raise any concerns about attacks against the USA, just when they retaliate.....

Corbyn has been on their state tv shaking hands and praising them before...

Not a peep from him about the attack on US embassy but pops up again now...

 

[Ruairi77]

Shes off her head. How about them attacking a US embassy only a few days ago???

??
you think she didn't address that?

 

[Ruairi77]

Stock market takes a dip but what's that, shares in Raytheon and Lockheed charging!?!
The system is broken.

 

[bol-uk]

So youre asking if Congress should be convened and allies notified when there is a chance to take out an enemy combatant (which is what they were) without any risk to civilian life?

They took the opportunity and they got him!



Thats spot on.





Is this the same Iran who imprisons westerners for years under the guise of them being apparent spies?

Come on mate...



Fighting ISIS in the land they wanted to take control of to get it away from other religious groups they want to murder and have murdered along with US troops in the same war.





Shes off her head. How about them attacking a US embassy only a few days ago???





Corbyn has been on their state tv shaking hands and praising them before...

Not a peep from him about the attack on US embassy but pops up again now...

pffft mate, Guantanamo? The yanks a far worse than these lot. Netanyahu voicing his support totally confirms it. Terrorists in arms

 

[neil999]

It is a pity more of these commentators and politicians didn’t denounce the attack upon the US Embassy. Corbyn and co didn’t raise any concerns about attacks against the USA, just when they retaliate.....

well i doubt she agrees with it mate, what would condemning it acheive...the key question is what is the strategy here, what happens next?