Holgate Racially Abused By Firmino - The Guardian

[davek]

Personally I hope he hasn’t used racist language and if his personality on the pitch is anything to go by I’ll be surprised if he has. I’m hoping it was all a misunderstanding and people can move on.
But I put myself in Holgate shoes, I’d be fuming that nothing has been said.
Put yourself in Firmino’s shoes if you’re innocent, I’d want the FA to make it perfectly clear that I was innocent.
I just don’t get the delay, it’s not fair on both players.

...less fair on Holgate as he's been tried and found guilty in the court of public opinion thanks to the Kopite media place-men. Firmino is left to carry on his merry way having abused our player.

40 days the FA have had to get to the bottom of this so far. It's just about reached the point of embarrassment for them.

 

[Deckard2049]

"Evra made his claims immediately after the match and was quoted as telling French TV station Canal Plus: "There are cameras, you can see [Suarez] say a certain word to me at least 10 times."

i do remember seeing this and there was definitely more than one clip of Suarez saying it, so like i said that automatically is proof, as of yet there is no proof against firminho just holgates word, hence why it is taking longer

Interesting that both Evra and Bong went public very quickly and in response the FA issued charges. Perhaps we haven’t been forthright enough? Only holgate and the club know why that is.

 

[davek]

When the RS get Champions League next season on goal difference, and then he gets banned will be interesting.
Also, if a team gets relagated on the back of a defeat at the hands of his goals too.

Absolutely typical of the FA.

Correct.

I said a few pages back that if these players were told to sit out matches until an investigation is carried out then the clubs involved and the FA would become a hell of a lot more efficient at getting through the process. Looking at the FA workload on such matters every month (including non-league stuff) it's literally a handful of cases they have to look at.

 

[davek]

"I don't know if Porto are going to be afraid but we are going to make their life difficult and make them suffer," said Firmino.

I'm sure Holgate can testify to that.

I hope Porto target him and his night is ended prematurely.

 

[matchworks]

IF he is found guilty then a deterrent will stop future racist behaviour against players. The FA remaining silent is not an acceptable answer. This can’t just be swept under the carpet, either the accusation can not be supported by evidence and is dismissed or it can be and Firmino is charged. Which one is it the FA?

Send emails to kick it out. The F.A , various journalists. Be pro active rather than do nothing. Make it clear to people you contact you want a response.

 

[billyblue80]

Personally I hope he hasn’t used racist language and if his personality on the pitch is anything to go by I’ll be surprised if he has. I’m hoping it was all a misunderstanding and people can move on.
But I put myself in Holgate shoes, I’d be fuming that nothing has been said.
Put yourself in Firmino’s shoes if you’re innocent, I’d want the FA to make it perfectly clear that I was innocent.
I just don’t get the delay, it’s not fair on both players.

The whole thing reeks. If he was so innocent then why haven't the FA cleared him it's been weeks now?There's clearly more to it and one players word against another. What message does it send with the FA's failure to deal with this?An WBA player is easy to charge not so the loveable reds toothy Bobby.

 

[catcherintherye]

...less fair on Holgate as he's been tried and found guilty in the court of public opinion thanks to the Kopite media place-men. Firmino is left to carry on his merry way having abused our player.

40 days the FA have had to get to the bottom of this so far. It's just about reached the point of embarrassment for them.

A lawyer found (within the last few weeks) the FA had no idea how to deal with racism, no understanding of it, and that every single one of it's employees need urgent race relations training. This was a finding not challenged by the FA who agreed with it.

These are the people investigating this case.

 

[Jebus_lives]

A lawyer found (within the last few weeks) the FA had no idea how to deal with racism, no understanding of it, and that every single one of it's employees need urgent race relations training. This was a finding not challenged by the FA who agreed with it.

These are the people investigating this case.

I'm in agreement with you and @davek on this. The FA in the public inquiry with Aluko & Spence have been shown to be completely inadequate with lacking or convoluted systems of charge and appeal. They clearly don't know how to deal properly with racism, they make token gestures to demonstrate compliance (eg Rodriguez) but fail completely when but under serious scrutiny or pressure.

While I think that due process should always run its course Everton really need to be putting pressure on in press conferences, media and through support to Holgate.

It'll be very telling if Holgate starts the next derby what happens with the handshake - but it shouldn't have to come to that.

 

[toffeejack]

What do people feel about england cricket team dropping Ben stokes from the biggest series of the year until he's trialed compared to the English fa allowing firminho to carry on parading the pitch?

Who's right? Same country but different sports and boards.

 

[f.t.r.s]

Needs to be dealt with asap.
It's wrong that he's been allowed to score and assist goals and contribute to any success they may have if he's found to be guilty.
Who will the ban benefit? certainly not the teams he's already contributed against since the incident
If anything the fa's overreaction to rodriguez looks like their excuse to let him off, ' we're not sure about firmino but look at how seriously we take racism in other cases'....love how they managed to decide rodriguez telling someone he stinks/has bad breath was completely due to the colour of his skin....pathetic

 

[Jebus_lives]

What do people feel about england cricket team dropping Ben stokes from the biggest series of the year until he's trialed compared to the English fa allowing firminho to carry on parading the pitch?

Who's right? Same country but different sports and boards.

One was in the hands of the police. Legal proceedings are ongoing with Ben Stokes. I imagine that's where the difference lies.

Although I suspect the FA would love police involvement in this as it negates their need to give it due process. They could stonewall and say 'its in the hands of the criminal justice system'. Give a ban if found guilty or nothing if not (despite being two different burdens).

 

[Deckard2049]

One was in the hands of the police. Legal proceedings are ongoing with Ben Stokes. I imagine that's where the difference lies.

Although I suspect the FA would love police involvement in this as it negates their need to give it due process. They could stonewall and say 'its in the hands of the criminal justice system'. Give a ban if found guilty or nothing if not (despite being two different burdens).

Technically the FA punished John Terry over a similar incident whilst simultaneously an actual criminal court found him not guilty. My point? The FA haven’t a clue what they’re doing. Despite terry being cleared the FA conducted their own investigation and found him guilty of racist abuse. No fan of John Terry but nobody can deny that it’s a bit bizarre for the FA to essentially place their authority higher than that of a criminal court!

All conspiracy theories aside, if there’s something to this Firmino will be punished. The FA won’t let a serious racist allegation come to nothing if there’s evidence for it. Still think it’s strange how we’ve handled this ourselves though. Bong and Evra both made their allegations public forcing the FA to really act. We haven’t done anything and Holgate has basically gone AWOL since this incident.

From a RS viewpoint I do wonder if they would have been far more active in the transfer market if they anticipated a ban for firmino. It could be of course that they’re just keeping a low profile and hoping this will fade away, but if Firmino has said something I’m sure Klopp would have known about it straight away and would have adjusted his plans accordingly.

 

[TheBlueGibbon]

Technically the FA punished John Terry over a similar incident whilst simultaneously an actual criminal court found him not guilty. My point? The FA haven’t a clue what they’re doing. Despite terry being cleared the FA conducted their own investigation and found him guilty of racist abuse. No fan of John Terry but nobody can deny that it’s a bit bizarre for the FA to essentially place their authority higher than that of a criminal court!

All conspiracy theories aside, if there’s something to this Firmino will be punished. The FA won’t let a serious racist allegation come to nothing if there’s evidence for it. Still think it’s strange how we’ve handled this ourselves though. Bong and Evra both made their allegations public forcing the FA to really act. We haven’t done anything and Holgate has basically gone AWOL since this incident.

From a RS viewpoint I do wonder if they would have been far more active in the transfer market if they anticipated a ban for firmino. It could be of course that they’re just keeping a low profile and hoping this will fade away, but if Firmino has said something I’m sure Klopp would have known about it straight away and would have adjusted his plans accordingly.

There's different standards of evidence required for a criminal court and a civil court. A criminal court has to be 'beyond reasonable doubt' a civil case only requires 'on the balance of probabilities.' The FA works on similar regulations to a civil court in these matters, so the burden of proof is comparatively lower.

 

[Deckard2049]

There's different standards of evidence required for a criminal court and a civil court. A criminal court has to be 'beyond reasonable doubt' a civil case only requires 'on the balance of probabilities.' The FA works on similar regulations to a civil court in these matters, so the burden of proof is comparatively lower.

Fair point. However to launch their own investigation after Terry was already cleared probably came as a surprise to all involved. This demonstrates to me that they were desperate to be seen taking the matter seriously and to be seen being proactive in the fight against racism. Hence why I think people saying that they’re letting this issue fade away deliberately or simply sweeping it under the rug are incorrect.

In the case of John Terry the FA could quite have easily just issued a statement that said “he was cleared in a court of law, what exactly do you want us to do” or they could have not done anything- they didn’t do either of those things. Instead they actively pursued the matter further and subsequently punished him after their own investigation. He was England captain at the time and they went for it. Yet people in this thread seem to think because Firmino plays for the RS nothing will happen because of some conspiracy? Utter nonsense.

 

[matchworks]

Needs to be dealt with asap.
It's wrong that he's been allowed to score and assist goals and contribute to any success they may have if he's found to be guilty.
Who will the ban benefit? certainly not the teams he's already contributed against since the incident
If anything the fa's overreaction to rodriguez looks like their excuse to let him off, ' we're not sure about firmino but look at how seriously we take racism in other cases'....love how they managed to decide rodriguez telling someone he stinks/has bad breath was completely due to the colour of his skin....pathetic

So if Firminho should have been banned without a hearing does that mean we can go back in the F.A cup as Jay Rodriguez goals deservedly put us out the cup?