Current Affairs George Floyd and Minneapolis Unrest

[Hickson9]

Class issues are a whole other issue. Can't agree more on that.

But racial issues exacerbate these

Class and racial lines can definitely correlate.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Ooof looks like you’d rather not engage with the nuances and coming across like you either don’t understand or don’t wish to

I just dont have some weird desire to make out that white people are evil scum as im white and most people I know are white and guess what? Most couldn't give a toss what colour someone else is, what gender they sleep with in bed or what God they pray to.

Poverty is colour blind - there is no white privilege just the haves and have nots. The haves like to promote differences and groups in society based on ethnicity, sexual orientation, religion etc as they know people will be too busy engaging in petty tribal nonsense to actually come together and realise everyone is human and should be treated as one - and the haves who control most of the resources and wealth do not want that do they.

Until the day comes where we look at one another as humans and not colour, when we dont have events to "celebrate" who we are attracted to and when we dont go to seperate buildings to be told our God is the right one then you'll always have idiots who prejudice against others.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

I would argue the "FU" rate/"know your place" rate was substantially higher later, as opposed to more genuine memorial and historical efforts in the time frame you reference. The reality is that in most of the American south there was very minimal need to do such a thing ("know your role" etc.) in 1910.

I've been hunting for a "confederate memorial by year" chart for a while. Because I suspect your analysis is correct and would like to have the data. I have no idea why you would erect a statue to a general in a war your grandfather lost but, here we are.

 

[Ruairi77]

I, for one, don't care if we change the name of streets named for people in the confederacy. It seems somewhat silly to hang on to those things.

I do care about actual things of historical significance or art being destroyed. If it's some segregation-era "FU" thing, not as much.

would you be alright with statues being moved out of public places and into museums?

 

[Ruairi77]

I just dont have some weird desire to make out that white people are evil scum as im white and most people I know are white and guess what? Most couldn't give a toss what colour someone else is, what gender they sleep with in bed or what God they pray to.

Poverty is colour blind - there is no white privilege just the haves and have nots. The haves like to promote differences and groups in society based on ethnicity, sexual orientation, religion etc as they know people will be too busy engaging in petty nosense to actually come together and realise everyone is human and should be treated as one - and the haves who control most of the resources and wealth do not want that do they.

Until the day comes where we look at one another as humans and not colour, when we dont have events to "celebrate" who we are attracted to and when we dont go to seperate buildings to be told our God is the right one then you'll always have idiots who prejudice against others.

poverty might be color blind but the opportunity to escape it sure isn't.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

I just dont have some weird desire to make out that white people are evil scum as im white and most people I know are white and guess what? Most couldn't give a toss what colour someone else, what gender they do in bed or what God they pray too.

Poverty is colour blind - there is no white privilege just the haves and have nots. The haves like to promote differences and groups in society based on ethnicity, sexual orientation, religion etc as they know people will be too busy engaging in petty nosense to actually come together and realise everyone is human and should be treated as one - and the haves who control most of the resources and wealth do not want that do they.

Until the day comes where we look at one another as humans and not colour, when we dont have events to "celebrate" who we are attracted to and when we dont go to seperate buildings to be taught our God is the right one then you'll always have idiots who prejudice against others.

Poverty is indeed ingrained in communities and knows no colour. But african americans are much more likely to be generationally poor and that is an issue with it's roots way back in the last century and beyond. In the UK, we don't really have ghettos or areas where only one race lives. Race relations in the US are completely different. Immigrant communities in the UK exist because they were recruited to work in industries the country had a need to fill or as a gesture at the end of the empire. None of them are in Britain because they were kidnapped and sold as property.

 

[TheBigEasy]

Then you are exceptionally dense.

I'm sure there are some Lego bricks you could go and play with.

Whatever la.

 

[Hickson9]

Poverty is indeed ingrained in communities and knows no colour. But african americans are much more likely to be generationally poor and that is an issue with it's roots way back in the last century and beyond. In the UK, we don't really have ghettos or areas where only one race lives. Race relations in the US are completely different. Immigrant communities in the UK exist because they were recruited to work in industries the country had a need to fill or as a gesture at the end of the empire. None of them are in Britain because they were kidnapped and sold as property.

You haven't lived in London have you?

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

You haven't lived in London have you?

No. Are there areas that are deliberately run down and neglected written off by the city? I'm not being snarky I'm interested.

 

[Pettifogger]

would you be alright with statues being moved out of public places and into museums?

The concept bothers me overall, but the short answer is not really. I don't like the groundswells on this type of thing, very often with the loudest and most demanding voices being the "white saviors" rather than the black Southern black men and women who are used as fodder for the debate. But it's the nature of the debate that bothers me more than the removal of the statue.

I do think the ones of merit (meaning of some artistic value or particularly historic, etc.) should be preserved and not destroyed.

 

[LostLegend]

No. The true vile individuals are people like yourself who are incable of a reasonable discussion and only resort to name calling and accusations of racism. It's a very worn and tired formula that simply does not work and hasn’t for years. How can the modern left possibly win anything with a pathetic attitude like this? Information is key. It is this pathetic attitute that has lost critical thinkers in droves over the years.

Thank you for this response, you have just confirmed to me exactly what you are. This type of response is the modus operandi with people of your ilk who hold these types of objectionable views. I've crossed paths with hundreds of you over the years.

You see, what you are doing is disguising your rhetoric as well researched opinion, hoping people will come in and debate you so that you can keep your little platform going in which to spew your bile and build an audience. You'll never make any of your points or say any of your beliefs directly, but disguise them as other peoples in the form of quotes and links.

And then when people call you out, you go crying about 'civilized debate' and go on about 'critical thinking' (a tactic to undermine the person who is calling you out for what you are) in this case, me.

I see right through you, clear as day.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

The concept bothers me overall, but the short answer is not really. I don't like the groundswells on this type of thing, very often with the loudest and most demanding voices being the "white saviors" rather than the black Southern black men and women who are used as fodder for the debate. But it's the nature of the debate that bothers me more than the removal of the statue.

I do think the ones of merit (meaning of some artistic value or particularly historic, etc.) should be preserved and not destroyed.

Ones with dead people's names on from the place that were erected within 50 years of the war finishing, no problem go nuts.

Ones from the 1960s of Robert E. Lee on horseback inscribed "The South Will Rise Again"... Less good.

Mississippi really needs to have a look at its state flag also and no public building should ever be flying the battle flag of the confederacy. The bad racists.

 

[samsonthedog1]

Disgusting what happened to the poor man thankfully the policeman who done it will be charged with murder. The police over there are way to trigger happy. Equally appalled by the utter carnage and looting carried out by Antifa.

 

[mill]

Absolutely, though (and I should have been clearer in my post) I think the issue of white vs black has been deliberately stoked by the rich over there to control both, and to prevent them recognizing that (as @ForeverBlue92 says) they really do have more in common than they do with their "betters".

I don’t think anyone is disagreeing about class. I completely completely agree. There are a lot of crossover. But racism needs to be given its own space, it’s on debate. As it’s real and it exists and to fix it is going to take a monumental effort from everyone.

 

[Hickson9]

No. Are there areas that are deliberately run down and neglected written off by the city? I'm not being snarky I'm interested.

Poor quality, poorly designed housing, with little to no access to outside space, is grouped in certain parts of the city. It goes hand in hand with poverty and crime.

Bethnal Green for example, home to many of the Bangladeshi community, and where I have lived.

Being London, these poorer areas with concentrations of BAME people can be partly gentrified. There are trendy expensive bars and restaurants under arches, mostly full of white people. Step outside and the picture changes. The racial divisions are quite stark here.