Current Affairs George Floyd and Minneapolis Unrest

[Lloydystark]

Didn’t he threaten to shoot a pregnant women?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Seen this sort of sentiment a lot lately, and all I'd tell you to do is to watch that Ryan Whitaker video. If a cop can shoot a man following instructions, who had broken no law, it be caught on two bodycams and the family are just left to deal with it rather than getting any kind of intervention from the state then it should tell everyone how utterly in need of severe reform the situation is.

For the record, I haven't ever said that police in America haven't gotten things all kinds of wrong, both in their targeting of certain ethnic groups, and their extreme use of force when dealing with people. It's utterly insane. Just saying that given that this is the reality of things right now, I wouldn't be doing anything that would increase the likelihood of the crazy buzzards ending my life. Looking at the Whitaker video, it probably doesn't help coming to the door with a gun in your hand. It's hard to fathom a situation where you'd do that. Bonkers country.

 

[tsubaki]

For the record, I haven't ever said that police in America haven't gotten things all kinds of wrong, both in their targeting of certain ethnic groups, and their extreme use of force when dealing with people. It's utterly insane. Just saying that given that this is the reality of things right now, I wouldn't be doing anything that would increase the likelihood of the crazy buzzards ending my life. Looking at the Whitaker video, it probably doesn't help coming to the door with a gun in your hand. It's hard to fathom a situation where you'd do that. Bonkers country.

Why wouldn't he do that over there? As you say, its a bonkers country, and he doesn't know who is at his door.

 

[Zezti]

Banksy with the ALL BLACK LIVES MATTER in the wake of migrants drowning in the sea.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Why wouldn't he do that over there? As you say, its a bonkers country, and he doesn't know who is at his door.

Why wouldn't someone answer the door with a gun in their hand?

 

[tsubaki]

Why wouldn't someone answer the door with a gun in their hand?

In the US? It’s probably common sense in some areas.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

In the US? It’s probably common sense in some areas.

Pretty mad, but I'd imagine his chances of being shot like that would have been hugely reduced if he didn't have a gun in his hand when he answered the door.

 

[tsubaki]

Pretty mad, but I'd imagine his chances of being shot like that would have been hugely reduced if he didn't have a gun in his hand when he answered the door.

Again, it’s his house and the law there allows him to do it.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Again, it’s his house and the law there allows him to do it.

As mentioned in my original post, the law allows me to do a lot of things when cycling in London that while legal, would be dangerous. It's no good protesting about the legality of your actions if you're dead. A friend came to visit last year and he rode here the same way he rides in the Lakes. Perfectly legal, but he was knocked off three times in a week. He could protest and try and change the system, which might take years, or he could adapt his own behaviour to be less risky.

To reiterate, that's not to say that the police don't act madly and that major change isn't required both in terms of gun laws in the country and police behaviour, just that right here and now, there seem to be actions taken that aren't going to reduce the risk of the police shooting you, which from a purely rational point of view I find strange.

 

[Khalekan]

Police at it again. Man opens door with one hand behind his back, is immediately told to show his hands, does so and kneels, still gets shot and killed in front of his girlfriend.

Police body cam video contains shooting so dont watch if sensitive

That is absolutely horrendous.

Cold blooded murder.

 

[tsubaki]

As mentioned in my original post, the law allows me to do a lot of things when cycling in London that while legal, would be dangerous. It's no good protesting about the legality of your actions if you're dead. A friend came to visit last year and he rode here the same way he rides in the Lakes. Perfectly legal, but he was knocked off three times in a week. He could protest and try and change the system, which might take years, or he could adapt his own behaviour to be less risky.

To reiterate, that's not to say that the police don't act madly and that major change isn't required both in terms of gun laws in the country and police behaviour, just that right here and now, there seem to be actions taken that aren't going to reduce the risk of the police shooting you, which from a purely rational point of view I find strange.

The difference is though that you are cycling, and he is in his home. The US is awash with guns and it isn’t unusual or unreasonable to own one, or carry one. Look at all the fools who’ve taken one to these riots, for example without anyone of them being shot by cops.

The man was in his home when someone knocked at his door and he went to see who it was. When he’s opened his door he has had a bright flashlight aimed in his face. If he’d raised his gun and pointed it at the light I’d understand a bit more, but he’s followed their instructions, was clearly putting the gun down and then he’s been shot three times.

It’s unconscionable, and the lack of the state dealing with the killing of a citizen in such circumstances is even worse.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The difference is though that you are cycling, and he is in his home. The US is awash with guns and it isn’t unusual or unreasonable to own one, or carry one. Look at all the fools who’ve taken one to these riots, for example without anyone of them being shot by cops.

The man was in his home when someone knocked at his door and he went to see who it was. When he’s opened his door he has had a bright flashlight aimed in his face. If he’d raised his gun and pointed it at the light I’d understand a bit more, but he’s followed their instructions, was clearly putting the gun down and then he’s been shot three times.

It’s unconscionable, and the lack of the state dealing with the killing of a citizen in such circumstances is even worse.

Again, I'm not suggesting it's right whatsoever. The whole thing is utterly barmy, but even with the people taking guns to protests, I would imagine them wielding a weapon if confronted by the police would make it much more likely that they would come a cropper. That just seems logical. I don't hold out much hope that the police in the US will get any less trigger happy, as any kind of action on guns seems to take an age to achieve nothing, so in the meantime, if there are things people can do to make it less likely they'll get shot, it seems daft to not do those things simply because they shouldn't have to.

 

[mezzrow]

I watched the video the other day and it brought to mind cycling in London. There are various things you can do that are technically perfectly within the law, but they nonetheless increase the risk of an accident, which given the power imbalance between you and a motor vehicle will always leave you worst off, so experienced riders know not to put themselves into those positions. It's better to be alive than a 'right' dead person.

I've no idea what the guy was stopped for, and the issues around police targeting of Black men are quite evident, but watching an obviously tense situation where police have deadly weapons that history shows they're all too happy to use, I couldn't help thinking, walking away from them to try and get in my car has a whole lot of risk for me with seemingly no reward.

You've got to be alive to make things better. You know? It's not the victim's fault when they get mugged, but similarly, I'm sure most people would advise not to walk around dangerous neighbourhoods at night flashing a watch or your wallet about. You can accept that situations are wrong while also striving not to put yourself into situations where you'll be harmed by the inequities of society.

Seen this sort of sentiment a lot lately, and all I'd tell you to do is to watch that Ryan Whitaker video. If a cop can shoot a man following instructions, who had broken no law, it be caught on two bodycams and the family are just left to deal with it rather than getting any kind of intervention from the state then it should tell everyone how utterly in need of severe reform the situation is.

And you're both right. There's the rub.

A large part of the problem is embodied in the principle of sovereign immunity. The question is whether government could effectively govern without it, or with a version that is less encompassing than the one currently in place. My position is that it can.

This may seem inconsistent with my previous posting, but the psychological state of peace officers is a different matter than sovereign immunity. "Justified" is a slippery, fungible concept. The bar for making individual government employees pay a personal price for their actions has been set too high, and the ability of individuals to bring the state to justice is inadequate.

 

[Moomin]

As mentioned in my original post, the law allows me to do a lot of things when cycling in London that while legal, would be dangerous. It's no good protesting about the legality of your actions if you're dead. A friend came to visit last year and he rode here the same way he rides in the Lakes. Perfectly legal, but he was knocked off three times in a week. He could protest and try and change the system, which might take years, or he could adapt his own behaviour to be less risky.

To reiterate, that's not to say that the police don't act madly and that major change isn't required both in terms of gun laws in the country and police behaviour, just that right here and now, there seem to be actions taken that aren't going to reduce the risk of the police shooting you, which from a purely rational point of view I find strange.

When i play grand theft auto i make it a personal mission of mine to run over every cyclist i see.

 

[mezzrow]

In the US? It’s probably common sense in some areas.

This is sad, but true. It's all a matter of context.