Current Affairs George Floyd and Minneapolis Unrest

[mezzrow]

A million times this. The right, even now, bang on about the Second Amendment - how only they are the ones who can be trusted to defend it. How if they aren't in power then the government is going to take everyones guns.

Here is a bloke who answers his door to someone saying they are cops, who he can't confirm are cops through the peephole in his door, with his gun ready. He realises they are cops when he opens it, follows their instructions and kneels, and then gets shot dead by them. At no point is resistence shown to their commands, or the gun raised, or threats made - he is just shot dead whilst he is kneeling down.

Yet we have the usual tools on here insisting that the cops were justified. They weren't, and wouldn't be in any jurisdiction on earth - even where owning a firearm is illegal. It is awful to watch.

This is much better.

 

[tsubaki]

That may be true or not, but does not address the points made in any material way. Why do you prefer to attack the person rather than the facts of the case?

It wouldn't be because your mind is made up, would it? The purpose isn't simply to get the poster to shut up, is it?

I'm trying to understand what could be driving that reaction other than what the filthy Tories call "moral posturing and shaming into silence."

C'mon mate, I know you're better than that.

Have you seen that video? Imagine watching that, then coming on here to post a load of guff about how justified it was to shoot a bloke dead who was kneeling down on his own doorstep.

Perhaps the language was a bit excessive, but the sentiment wasn't - anyone who thinks that is justified should have a long and difficult conversation with themselves.

 

[mezzrow]

Have you seen that video? Imagine watching that, then coming on here to post a load of guff about how justified it was to shoot a bloke dead who was kneeling down on his own doorstep.

Perhaps the language was a bit excessive, but the sentiment wasn't - anyone who thinks that is justified should have a long and difficult conversation with themselves.

To be sure. How many folks in law enforcement have you talked to in the last month? Or the last year? Or the last five years?

It appears, by your words here, that you assume there is no regret or psychological impact to the shooter in this situation. Only prison would be the correct disposition, I suppose. Do you know guys who have PTSD from their experience "on the job", whatever it was?

I do. More than one. All have worked as military personnel and law enforcement. It's a job where life and death decisions have to be made and things happen incredibly fast. Good luck in disarming the American populace. It's good to have a goal.

I'm sorry you weren't born earlier into the Germany of the early 1900's so you could have stopped all that madness for us. Fair?

Yes, I know I'm being unreasonably hard, but I'm doing so with a purpose. After awhile, I find it hard to hold it all in.

I'm done.

 

[TheBigIguana]

To be sure. How many folks in law enforcement have you talked to in the last month? Or the last year? Or the last five years?

It appears, by your words here, that you assume there is no regret or psychological impact to the shooter in this situation. Only prison would be the correct disposition, I suppose. Do you know guys who have PTSD from their experience "on the job", whatever it was?

I do. More than one. All have worked as military personnel and law enforcement. It's a job where life and death decisions have to be made and things happen incredibly fast. Good luck in disarming the American populace. It's good to have a goal.

I'm sorry you weren't born earlier into the Germany of the early 1900's so you could have stopped all that madness for us. Fair?

Yes, I know I'm being unreasonably hard, but I'm doing so with a purpose. After awhile, I find it hard to hold it all in.

I'm done.

Does this argument apply to non-police who shoot people as well? Like if I gun down someone on the streets and then have negative psychological effects afterward am I good to claim that I should be absolved of blame?

I get it, the job is hard, but it doesn't mean that things can just be excused like they have been. And there is a lot of misconduct toward black people that isn't in life or death situations. The targeting every day is just as much what this is about as the shootings.

 

[tsubaki]

To be sure. How many folks in law enforcement have you talked to in the last month? Or the last year? Or the last five years?

It appears, by your words here, that you assume there is no regret or psychological impact to the shooter in this situation. Only prison would be the correct disposition, I suppose. Do you know guys who have PTSD from their experience "on the job", whatever it was?

I do. More than one. All have worked as military personnel and law enforcement. It's a job where life and death decisions have to be made and things happen incredibly fast. Good luck in disarming the American populace. It's good to have a goal.

I'm sorry you weren't born earlier into the Germany of the early 1900's so you could have stopped all that madness for us. Fair?

Yes, I know I'm being unreasonably hard, but I'm doing so with a purpose. After awhile, I find it hard to hold it all in.

I'm done.

Well, I know loads of cops and members of police staff, including people that have been involved in and had to resolve absolutely horrific events. I speak to many of them on a daily basis, and have done for just over twenty years.

At times it’s awful the stress imposed on those people required to take decisions, often decisions that have a massive impact on people, and it lives with them forever. You are right to say how much it affects them, and it’s something that wil never go away for all the people involved.

Where you go wrong though is to miss out the part about how to function effectively that they have to be willing to accept blame, in order to get better and more effective, and most importantly to retain the public support required for them to do their job,

Those cops weren’t responding to a terrorist attack, a shooting or a murder. This wasn’t a natural disaster or act of god; it was called in as a domestic (falsely, as it turned out) and the officers who attended ended up shooting an entirely innocent man dead, a man who did nothing wrong. The fault for the death is entirely with the officers. There has to be consequences, as there would be for everyone else - as Peel said, the police are the public and the public the police

If anyone’s reaction to watching the video is to defend those cops rather than to demand reform then, honestly, I have no time for them. It’s useless, cretinous behaviour when anyone with the best interests of law enforcement at heart would be critical of what the officers had done.

Whenever the police in this country have messed up like that - the shooting of Cherry Groce, the murder of Steven Lawrence, the killing of Jean-Charles de Menezes and many other incidents - the police have carried out really big changes aimed at dealing with the problems identified and getting better.

Things aren’t perfect (indeed perfection is probably impossible) but public support is still there and when disaster has struck - like in the various London terror attacks or the more recent ones in Reading and Glasgow - everyone can see how positive the changes have been.

What the US law enforcement community now has to do is look at this case, and that lad being shot in the back, and George Brown, and Breonna Taylor, and all the rest *this year* and recognise that things have to change. Refusing to do so and backing Trump is mindless.

 

[Prevenger17]

It appears, by your words here, that you assume there is no regret or psychological impact to the shooter in this situation. Only prison would be the correct disposition, I suppose. Do you know guys who have PTSD from their experience "on the job", whatever it was?

So they become justified killings if the policeman feels bad about it afterwards? An interesting take

 

[neil999]

To be sure. How many folks in law enforcement have you talked to in the last month? Or the last year? Or the last five years?

It appears, by your words here, that you assume there is no regret or psychological impact to the shooter in this situation. Only prison would be the correct disposition, I suppose. Do you know guys who have PTSD from their experience "on the job", whatever it was?

I do. More than one. All have worked as military personnel and law enforcement. It's a job where life and death decisions have to be made and things happen incredibly fast. Good luck in disarming the American populace. It's good to have a goal.

I'm sorry you weren't born earlier into the Germany of the early 1900's so you could have stopped all that madness for us. Fair?

Yes, I know I'm being unreasonably hard, but I'm doing so with a purpose. After awhile, I find it hard to hold it all in.

I'm done.

Still alive tho...

 

[DanEFC92]

So they become justified killings if the policeman feels bad about it afterwards? An interesting take

Same energy

 

[Tir Eoghain Blue]

you are an absolute shambles of a human being

You don’t know anything about me buddy. Lived in the USA for over 20 yrs. Grew up in Northern Ireland where the police (RUC) regularly worked in tandem with loyalist assassins to target/shoot members of the catholic community, including civilians.

Lethal Allies: British Collusion in Ireland

Farmers, shopkeepers, publicans and businessmen were sl…

www.goodreads.com

I would have the right to not trust the police, however I am familiar with the US constitution and use of force training for law enforcement. All of this trial by media nonsense doesn’t cut it when it reaches the court room and cold hard facts of the case are presented.


Very quick to jump to assumptions and judge people from your armchair mate. Hope the passion you have on this thread carries over to your real life.

 

[tsubaki]

You don’t know anything about me buddy. Lived in the USA for over 20 yrs. Grew up in Northern Ireland where the police (RUC) regularly worked in tandem with loyalist assassins to target/shoot members of the catholic community, including civilians.

Lethal Allies: British Collusion in Ireland

Farmers, shopkeepers, publicans and businessmen were sl…

www.goodreads.com

I would have the right to not trust the police, however I am familiar with the US constitution and use of force training for law enforcement. All of this trial by media nonsense doesn’t cut it when it reaches the court room and cold hard facts of the case are presented.


Very quick to jump to assumptions and judge people from your armchair mate. Hope the passion you have on this thread carries over to your real life.

I judge people based on what I can see, which is in your case seems to be justifying an unarmed bloke getting shot in the back multiple times, and a bloke who was kneeling down getting shot dead. That you think they were justified tells me everything I need to know.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I watched the video the other day and it brought to mind cycling in London. There are various things you can do that are technically perfectly within the law, but they nonetheless increase the risk of an accident, which given the power imbalance between you and a motor vehicle will always leave you worst off, so experienced riders know not to put themselves into those positions. It's better to be alive than a 'right' dead person.

I've no idea what the guy was stopped for, and the issues around police targeting of Black men are quite evident, but watching an obviously tense situation where police have deadly weapons that history shows they're all too happy to use, I couldn't help thinking, walking away from them to try and get in my car has a whole lot of risk for me with seemingly no reward.

You've got to be alive to make things better. You know? It's not the victim's fault when they get mugged, but similarly, I'm sure most people would advise not to walk around dangerous neighbourhoods at night flashing a watch or your wallet about. You can accept that situations are wrong while also striving not to put yourself into situations where you'll be harmed by the inequities of society.

 

[Prevenger17]

You don’t know anything about me buddy. Lived in the USA for over 20 yrs. Grew up in Northern Ireland where the police (RUC) regularly worked in tandem with loyalist assassins to target/shoot members of the catholic community, including civilians.

Lethal Allies: British Collusion in Ireland

Farmers, shopkeepers, publicans and businessmen were sl…

www.goodreads.com

I would have the right to not trust the police, however I am familiar with the US constitution and use of force training for law enforcement. All of this trial by media nonsense doesn’t cut it when it reaches the court room and cold hard facts of the case are presented.


Very quick to jump to assumptions and judge people from your armchair mate. Hope the passion you have on this thread carries over to your real life.

Sounds a bit like you didn't like the police indiscriminately shooting Catholics, but reevaluated when their guns are aimed at people you don't care about. What a brave little soldier

 

[Harryflashman]

You don’t know anything about me buddy. Lived in the USA for over 20 yrs. Grew up in Northern Ireland where the police (RUC) regularly worked in tandem with loyalist assassins to target/shoot members of the catholic community, including civilians.

Lethal Allies: British Collusion in Ireland

Farmers, shopkeepers, publicans and businessmen were sl…

www.goodreads.com

I would have the right to not trust the police, however I am familiar with the US constitution and use of force training for law enforcement. All of this trial by media nonsense doesn’t cut it when it reaches the court room and cold hard facts of the case are presented.


Very quick to jump to assumptions and judge people from your armchair mate. Hope the passion you have on this thread carries over to your real life.

out of interest how many ruc were convicted in a courtroom of working in tandem as you suggest , you know when the ‘cold hard facts‘ had been presented ? If it isn’t too many I’d suggest it somewhat undermines your point

 

[tsubaki]

I watched the video the other day and it brought to mind cycling in London. There are various things you can do that are technically perfectly within the law, but they nonetheless increase the risk of an accident, which given the power imbalance between you and a motor vehicle will always leave you worst off, so experienced riders know not to put themselves into those positions. It's better to be alive than a 'right' dead person.

I've no idea what the guy was stopped for, and the issues around police targeting of Black men are quite evident, but watching an obviously tense situation where police have deadly weapons that history shows they're all too happy to use, I couldn't help thinking, walking away from them to try and get in my car has a whole lot of risk for me with seemingly no reward.

You've got to be alive to make things better. You know? It's not the victim's fault when they get mugged, but similarly, I'm sure most people would advise not to walk around dangerous neighbourhoods at night flashing a watch or your wallet about. You can accept that situations are wrong while also striving not to put yourself into situations where you'll be harmed by the inequities of society.

Seen this sort of sentiment a lot lately, and all I'd tell you to do is to watch that Ryan Whitaker video. If a cop can shoot a man following instructions, who had broken no law, it be caught on two bodycams and the family are just left to deal with it rather than getting any kind of intervention from the state then it should tell everyone how utterly in need of severe reform the situation is.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Getting some very odd takes in this forum lately. Hopefully when everton start paying again everyone will calm down a bit and feel more relaxed