Current Affairs George Floyd and Minneapolis Unrest

[Nymzee]

With firearms you're always trained, in any service, to aim for the centre of mass. It provides the most stopping power and is a lot easier to hit than a more slender and fast moving target.

But surely, with the BLM stuff happening now, a man running away from you, you maybe need to think "don't kill this man". They should be trained enough to shoot someone in the leg.

 

[tsubaki]

Why can't police just charge and tackle someone to stop them? Or shoot them in the legs if so desperate to use the gun?

for the first part - its because they have a gun; they can't get in a fracas with someone because of the real risk it will be taken off them and used

 

[Brennan]

TBF there is a lot of confusion caused by everyone elses cops not murdering black people to anything like the same level or with a history of actual involvement in these crimes. In the US - though even there its a majority of cops - you have a lot more cops killing a lot more people.

To make one completely overblown point, in Vallejo (CA), a city of 120000 people, cops have shot 19 people in the past decade.

In London (UK), a city of seven million people, cops from the Met and City Police have shot eight people in the past decade, five of them as they carried out terrorist attacks against other citizens.

In the entire country there have only been 25 police killings, of all causes, in the past decade. The US has had between 3800 (the number of deaths recorded on Wikipedia) and 10000+.

Surely that’s just more likely in a country where people routinely carry guns as do the police ?

Would be interesting to see the number of shootings across the general population versus police shootings.

 

[Lelouch]

How on earth is it just as bad.

That’s nonsense, and diminishes the outrageous treatment of Floyd.

Okay I'll say it again HE WAS RUNNING AWAY AND GOT SHOT it's not a competition who got it worse both are horrendous and shouldn't have happened regardless.

 

[Nymzee]

for the first part - its because they have a gun; they can't get in a fracas with someone because of the real risk it will be taken off them and used

I get that just a little dodgy really isn't it. We manage to arrest people in this country without needing them.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

But surely, with the BLM stuff happening now, a man running away from you, you maybe need to think "don't kill this man". They should be trained enough to shoot someone in the leg.

Try shooting somebody in the leg when they're running. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that it's a difficult skill and firearms training always teaches centre of mass.

 

[Brennan]

Okay I'll say it again HE WAS RUNNING AWAY AND GOT SHOT it's not a competition who got it worse both are horrendous and shouldn't have happened regardless.

Nobody said it’s a competition, but some nuanced discussion is helpful when you’re talking about people dying.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

Well unsure on what crime he was meant to have committed but if they had grounds to arrest him they could have pursued like normal humans. Just strange how their first thought with the gun is to shoot it lethally.

Being asleep in his car and later resisting arrest.

You'd just get moved along in the uk.

 

[catcherintherye]

99.999% of police officers dont murder black people. Why would you ring fence millions of people in such a way ?

I don’t mean ’you’ as in you specifically, btw.

I don't think I am saying every police officer has done it. I'm saying as an organisation they need to ensure their members who are doing it need to stop. I mean we can have a politically correct conversation and say all of the right things, but ultimately if police are seen to be shooting or murdering black people, with other officers standing by watching, it is going to strengthen that perception far more than what people on the internet can.

 

[Brennan]

I don't think I am saying every police officer has done it. I'm saying as an organisation they need to ensure their members who are doing it need to stop. I mean we can have a politically correct conversation and say all of the right things, but ultimately if police are seen to be shooting or murdering black people, with other officers standing by watching, it is going to strengthen that perception far more than what people on the internet can.

I agree they clearly need to improve things, but the answer is not to make all police feel like they are the enemy and hated, that will only fuel further division.

Police forces should receive further investment, I believe the salary police officers receive in the USA should be increased along with recruitment standards to encourage the right people are in these jobs. Defunding the police as some have suggested is not the solution, imo.

 

[tsubaki]

Surely that’s just more likely in a country where people routinely carry guns as do the police ?

Would be interesting to see the number of shootings across the general population versus police shootings.

some of that data is here - https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm

 

[Nymzee]

Try shooting somebody in the leg when they're running. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that it's a difficult skill and firearms training always teaches centre of mass.

Well the training needs changing then doesn't it haha. What use is a criminal if you're effectively shooting to kill.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

I agree they clearly need to improve things, but the answer is not to make all police feel like they are the enemy and hated, that will only fuel further division.

Police forces should receive further investment, I believe the salary police officers receive in the USA should be increased along with recruitment standards to encourage the right people are in these jobs. Defunding the police as some have suggested is not the solution, imo.

Could you not fund that by taking their tanks away?

 

[Brennan]

Could you not fund that by taking their tanks away?

Absolutely, I’m more referring to calls from people to take funding away from the police and put it into social programmes.

They should do both. Invest in communities and have an effectively funded police force. I’m not sure one works without the other.

 

[tsubaki]

I agree they clearly need to improve things, but the answer is not to make all police feel like they are the enemy and hated, that will only fuel further division.

Police forces should receive further investment, I believe the salary police officers receive in the USA should be increased along with recruitment standards to encourage the right people are in these jobs. Defunding the police as some have suggested is not the solution, imo.

Defunding it might be the only option if there is not genuine and really quite wide-ranging reform.

There are too many separate agencies, too much political interference (even at a very low level), too much of the wrong kind of equipment, almost no legal oversight compared to other police worldwide and too much historical baggage.