Current Affairs George Floyd and Minneapolis Unrest

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Unfortunately mate, that is far too simplistic.

These kinds of issues take understanding of nuance and complexity to solve.

They really, really don't. Sort out what is happening to the working class as a whole and you would solve 90% of this, leaving only the legacy of decades (centuries in some cases) of deliberate sowing of division and racism by those in charge to sort out - which would admittedly take some time.
 
I’ve used this before but it’s important.

A working class, lesbian, woman of colour, with a disability would not have the same experience as a working class, white, heterosexual, able bodied male.

Fixing the class system would not fix institutional racism. It’s not just pay gaps. It’s not just representation in business and politics.

Its representation in the arts. In literature. In sciences. On TV and in film.

It’s in the curriculum.

Fixing class would help a lot. Class has a big impact on representation in the arts for instance. But it’s not going to fix everything.

Intersectionality is important when it comes to identifying privileges.

That is the thing though - in the UK context, everything you identify there is a class issue.

Yes, the experiences of the woman and the man would be different (as indeed are the vast majority of invididuals experiences when compared to someone else) but the outcomes are likely to be very similar; they'll live in the same standard housing, have the same lack of job security, have a similar standard of (lack of) access to public facilities, even be paid around the same level.

The only real difference between the two is that one is likely to understand they are being oppressed whilst the other one has grown up believing that what is happening is normal, "fair" even.
 
That is the thing though - in the UK context, everything you identify there is a class issue.

Yes, the experiences of the woman and the man would be different (as indeed are the vast majority of invididuals experiences when compared to someone else) but the outcomes are likely to be very similar; they'll live in the same standard housing, have the same lack of job security, have a similar standard of (lack of) access to public facilities, even be paid around the same level.

The only real difference between the two is that one is likely to understand they are being oppressed whilst the other one has grown up believing that what is happening is normal, "fair" even.

What people dont understand is that there is a difference between racism and institutional racism.

Until they realise the difference they'll never understand the opposite viewpoint.

Are their racists in the UK? Yes

Are ethnic minorities more likely to be racially abused than the white majority? Yes

Is the UK institutionally racist that stops minorities from progressing in life whilst giving white people a leg up? NO

Funny how people never point to Asian children in this country who often flourish despite being a minority themselves - the reason why is two Things - 1. Often they come from financially secure backgrounds and 2. Their parents put alot of value in education.

White and black working class kids are often deprived of both its just you only ever hear how black working class are discriminated and have it tough - race has nothing to do with it and I say that as someone who came from a working class background in the North - I could relate a lot more to some working class black kid from a London estates upbringing than I could a upper middle class white lad from some leafy suburb.
 
What people dont understand is that there is a difference between racism and institutional racism.

Until they realise the difference they'll never understand the opposite viewpoint.

Are their racists in the UK? Yes

Are ethnic minorities more likely to be racially abused than the white majority? Yes

Is the UK institutionally racist that stops minorities from progressing in life whilst giving white people a leg up? NO

Funny how people never point to Asian children in this country who often flourish despite being a minority themselves - the reason why is two Things - 1. Often they come from financially secure backgrounds and 2. Their parents put alot of value in education.

White and black working class kids are often deprived of both its just you only ever hear how black working class are discriminated and have it tough - race has nothing to do with it and I say that as someone who came from a working class background in the North - I could relate a lot more to some working class black kid from a London estates upbringing than I could a upper middle class white lad from some leafy suburb.

I can smell the white privilege from your posts.
 
What people dont understand is that there is a difference between racism and institutional racism.

Until they realise the difference they'll never understand the opposite viewpoint.

Are their racists in the UK? Yes

Are ethnic minorities more likely to be racially abused than the white majority? Yes

Is the UK institutionally racist that stops minorities from progressing in life whilst giving white people a leg up? NO

Funny how people never point to Asian children in this country who often flourish despite being a minority themselves - the reason why is two Things - 1. Often they come from financially secure backgrounds and 2. Their parents put alot of value in education.

White and black working class kids are often deprived of both its just you only ever hear how black working class are discriminated and have it tough - race has nothing to do with it and I say that as someone who came from a working class background in the North - I could relate a lot more to some working class black kid from a London estates upbringing than I could a upper middle class white lad from some leafy suburb.

This is where you are going wrong though - does the UK have an instutitionalised system that stops people below a certain line progressing in life? Yes. Does that disproportionately affect BAME communities as a whole? Yes. Are the working class black kid and the working class white kid both affected by it? Yes. Can that manifest as racist? Yes, indeed dividing people by their race is a component of it.
 
What people dont understand is that there is a difference between racism and institutional racism.

Until they realise the difference they'll never understand the opposite viewpoint.

Are their racists in the UK? Yes

Are ethnic minorities more likely to be racially abused than the white majority? Yes

Is the UK institutionally racist that stops minorities from progressing in life whilst giving white people a leg up? NO

Funny how people never point to Asian children in this country who often flourish despite being a minority themselves - the reason why is two Things - 1. Often they come from financially secure backgrounds and 2. Their parents put alot of value in education.

White and black working class kids are often deprived of both its just you only ever hear how black working class are discriminated and have it tough - race has nothing to do with it and I say that as someone who came from a working class background in the North - I could relate a lot more to some working class black kid from a London estates upbringing than I could a upper middle class white lad from some leafy suburb.

Agree with a lot of that.

It's why I have an issue with the term "white privilege" when applied to the UK. A middle class black lad was a lot more "privilege" than a working class white lad here.

Comparing the US and UK in regard to racism really is apples and oranges. Yes, black people have issues here, but it's generally because they largely fall into the lower classes rather than the colour of their skin.
 
Find those protests disgusting in London. Barely an excuse to do it in the first place; no excuse whatsoever for the violence.

Tubey I've just had three hours of the march walking past my house (first one way, then the other), after seeing the same last weekend. I've seen no violence at all, indeed like last weekend they were all queueing up in our Tesco again, almost everyone wearing an appropriate mask.

All the cops I saw were in their carriers as well, sensibly as its absolutely tipping it down at present.
 
This is where you are going wrong though - does the UK have an instutitionalised system that stops people below a certain line progressing in life? Yes. Does that disproportionately affect BAME communities as a whole? Yes. Are the working class black kid and the working class white kid both affected by it? Yes. Can that manifest as racist? Yes, indeed dividing people by their race is a component of it.

I actually think you're agreeing with him mate. You're coming at it from different angles but reaching ultimately the same correct conclusion.

Of course there's an element of institutional racism in the UK - but it's paltry compared to the US, and a much lesser issue than that of class divide.

Hell, I'd argue even the geographical divide is a bigger issue than racism here.
 
Tubey I've just had three hours of the march walking past my house (first one way, then the other), after seeing the same last weekend. I've seen no violence at all, indeed like last weekend they were all queueing up in our Tesco again, almost everyone wearing an appropriate mask.

All the cops I saw were in their carriers as well, sensibly as its absolutely tipping it down at present.

Just kicked off last hour mate.
 
no, but it also doesnt mean the protest was a violent one - just that part of it (probably a very small part of it) was
No but there’s a few unsavoury things going on. The annual spray painting of the war memorials has unfortunately resurfaced as has the bottles chucked at the police. It did seem however, to be widely very well behaved up until then as you say
 
no, but it also doesnt mean the protest was a violent one - just that part of it (probably a very small part of it) was

Unfortunately the police have had to send in the horses down Whitehall, in reaction to items being thrown at officers.

It is quite frustrating. I don't think violence against the police is justified here in the UK. Violence will undermine the message and turn people against BLM.
 
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