Current Affairs General US politics (ie, not POTUS related)

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Walken said:
You are disgusting, have a nice life
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Disgusting for pointing out the dozens of charitable groups who help unfortunate females with abortion? If, say, a welfare rights group had done similar would they be similarly disgusting? I'm pro abortion btw. Maybe not abortion on demand like many Dems but abortion is ultimately it's not something I want to see banned.
 
dylsexicbleu said:
Not sure I believe many of these stories. Women (and girls) in the US are tripping over themselves with charities providing such abortion expenses. If in doubt Google them yourself. They aren't difficult to find.
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Wait, what? "I am a child who has been violated, but I should have to travel six hundred miles on someone else's nickel to resolve the consequences." Then there's the problem that your assertion simply isn't true.

Yo, @RAFUH, I will cheerfully accept a permaban while signaling against type to defend your side on the death on this one. You might need to talk Andy into a one-time exception to the language filter, though.
 
Martin Alvito said:
Wait, what? "I am a child who has been violated, but I should have to travel six hundred miles on someone else's nickel to resolve the consequences." Then there's the problem that your assertion simply isn't true.

Yo, @RAFUH, I will cheerfully accept a permaban while signaling against type to defend your side on the death on this one. You might need to talk Andy into a one-time exception to the language filter, though.
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Place him on ignore mate, we need to resist the temptation to involve the mods in the CA forum.

Trolls like this rely on energy either positive or negative, give them none.
 
Martin Alvito said:
Wait, what? "I am a child who has been violated, but I should have to travel six hundred miles on someone else's nickel to resolve the consequences." Then there's the problem that your assertion simply isn't true.

Yo, @RAFUH, I will cheerfully accept a permaban while signaling against type to defend your side on the death on this one. You might need to talk Andy into a one-time exception to the language filter, though.
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I don't see much difference between receiving charitable money to have an abortion and state money to have an abortion. Surely even charitable group organising an abortion is better than no group at all. The only minor inconvenience is a bit more travel, but thats a very minor inconvenience in the great scheme of thing. Oh, and before anyone tries to get ultra offended by my recent posts I have definitely not criticized a 13 yr old rape victim. My doubts are about the story as reported.
 
dylsexicbleu said:
I don't see much difference between receiving charitable money to have an abortion and state money to have an abortion. Surely even charitable group organising an abortion is better than no group at all. The only minor inconvenience is a bit more travel, but thats a very minor inconvenience in the great scheme of thing. Oh, and before anyone tries to get ultra offended by my recent posts I have definitely not criticized a 13 yr old rape victim. My doubts are about the story as reported.
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what????
My 13 year old daughter has been raped and is pregnant.
I could
1) take her to our family PCP and get a referral to an abortion clinic, get mental health care, get any other physical care needed and have the PCP liaise with the police to hopefully press charges all while attempting to limit the trauma she's suffering.

2) don't go anywhere near the family doctor because they've been banned from dealing with this and could lose their license for even talking to you. Go online and research charitable organizations that might help. Sift through options without any professional guidance and end up traveling out of state with a child to get her an abortion. Then try and navigate the medical minefield of getting her post op care at home, try to figure out insurance, legal issues, Planned Parenthood might have been a good option but they've been run out of town years ago. Meanwhile at least one parent is out of work managing the logistics of this, no ones getting counseling and the family are considering setting up a go fund me because the charity only covers so much and insurance wont touch it.

I get that some oppose abortion but forcing people to pick the second option or go through a high risk pregnancy is cruel and inhumane.
 
Walken said:
Place him on ignore mate, we need to resist the temptation to involve the mods in the CA forum.

Trolls like this rely on energy either positive or negative, give them none.
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It's a fair shout. There's (unpleasant) history here, and context.

I'm not staking out that hill in a vacuum. As I said in the reopening thread, I want a dialogue about how we must tweak the ground rules for this forum, for it to work. I want legitimate views to be heard, but I also think that there are limits. What I would like is a conversation about where those limits are.

In a nutshell, if I feel the need to go the full Malcolm Tucker on someone, I believe there is a problem. In the context of CA, the question is whether the problem is with me, CA more generally or the other poster. I have made my position known with respect to how we are handling the latter two categories at present. YMMV w/rt me.

dylsexicbleu said:
I don't see much difference between receiving charitable money to have an abortion and state money to have an abortion. Surely even charitable group organising an abortion is better than no group at all. The only minor inconvenience is a bit more travel, but thats a very minor inconvenience in the great scheme of thing. Oh, and before anyone tries to get ultra offended by my recent posts I have definitely not criticized a 13 yr old rape victim. My doubts are about the story as reported.
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That is blatant trolling at a level where I am comfortable saying that no constructive dialogue can occur, and that permitting its existence is just disruptive. What I wanted before reopening was a discussion about where the lines are, and what we intend to do about the problem.

I am very disappointed that we returned to this sort of nonsense that soon. I thought the time frame before we encountered something like this would be on the order of months, not days. The first day back was lovely, but I cannot fully express my thoughts on the highlighted statement via the English language. I am disgusted. I am enraged.

In no way would RAFUH consider me a defender of women's rights. There are many reasons for this. We have deep disagreements. What I am saying is that if I want to pull out the flamethrower on this issue, something is very wrong. The argument that the consequences of rape should be borne (or limited) by the largesse of charity is not sustainable. I am absolutely horrified by the entirety of this poster's position, not just what I highlighted.

So. There are three alternatives. We can say that I am the problem, we can say that the other poster is the problem, or we can say that the forum as constituted is a problem. I have been very clear about where I stand. I am willing to die on that hill, alone if need be.
 
Ruairi77 said:
what????
My 13 year old daughter has been raped and is pregnant.
I could
1) take her to our family PCP and get a referral to an abortion clinic, get mental health care, get any other physical care needed and have the PCP liaise with the police to hopefully press charges all while attempting to limit the trauma she's suffering.

2) don't go anywhere near the family doctor because they've been banned from dealing with this and could lose their license for even talking to you. Go online and research charitable organizations that might help. Sift through options without any professional guidance and end up traveling out of state with a child to get her an abortion. Then try and navigate the medical minefield of getting her post op care at home, try to figure out insurance, legal issues, Planned Parenthood might have been a good option but they've been run out of town years ago. Meanwhile at least one parent is out of work managing the logistics of this, no ones getting counseling and the family are considering setting up a go fund me because the charity only covers so much and insurance wont touch it.

I get that some oppose abortion but forcing people to pick the second option or go through a high risk pregnancy is cruel and inhumane.
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A family doctor could lose their license for even talking to you? No, that is not true. They may lose their license for talking to you specifically about abortion but not for simply talking to you. I refuse to believe a 13 yr old rape victim cannot find help for an out of state abortion. The family may have to be slightly more proactive and secretive but it can be done. I found numerous such groups with a single click on Google. Sorry, I'm not quite believing this story as reported.
 
Martin Alvito said:
It's a fair shout. There's (unpleasant) history here, and context.

I'm not staking out that hill in a vacuum. As I said in the reopening thread, I want a dialogue about how we must tweak the ground rules for this forum, for it to work. I want legitimate views to be heard, but I also think that there are limits. What I would like is a conversation about where those limits are.

In a nutshell, if I feel the need to go the full Malcolm Tucker on someone, I believe there is a problem. In the context of CA, the question is whether the problem is with me, CA more generally or the other poster. I have made my position known with respect to how we are handling the latter two categories at present. YMMV w/rt me.


That is blatant trolling at a level where I am comfortable saying that no constructive dialogue can occur, and that permitting its existence is just disruptive. What I wanted before reopening was a discussion about where the lines are, and what we intend to do about the problem.

I am very disappointed that we returned to this sort of nonsense that soon. I thought the time frame before we encountered something like this would be on the order of months, not days. The first day back was lovely, but I cannot fully express my thoughts on the highlighted statement via the English language. I am disgusted. I am enraged.

In no way would RAFUH consider me a defender of women's rights. There are many reasons for this. We have deep disagreements. What I am saying is that if I want to pull out the flamethrower on this issue, something is very wrong. The argument that the consequences of rape should be borne (or limited) by the largesse of charity is not sustainable. I am absolutely horrified by the entirety of this poster's position, not just what I highlighted.

So. There are three alternatives. We can say that I am the problem, we can say that the other poster is the problem, or we can say that the forum as constituted is a problem. I have been very clear about where I stand. I am willing to die on that hill, alone if need be.
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At least be truthful and embolden the rest of my sentence. I said travelling was a minor inconvenience in the greater scheme of things i.e. as in having a child at 13 and all the trauma this produces.
 
dylsexicbleu said:
At least be truthful and embolden the rest of my sentence. I said travelling was a minor inconvenience in the greater scheme of things i.e. as in having a child at 13 and all the trauma this produces.
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I will no longer beat around the bush.

If you minimized the consequences of rape in my physical presence, you would be fortunate indeed if I did not end you on the spot.

In many ways, my life has been defined by it.
 
dylsexicbleu said:
A family doctor could lose their license for even talking to you? No, that is not true. They may lose their license for talking to you specifically about abortion but not for simply talking to you. I refuse to believe a 13 yr old rape victim cannot find help for an out of state abortion. The family may have to be slightly more proactive and secretive but it can be done. I found numerous such groups with a single click on Google. Sorry, I'm not quite believing this story as reported.
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first of all It's obvious that I meant talking to your PCP about abortion options.
Secondly, I never said options couldn't be found. I just pointed out how tough and cruel the process has been made.

The fact that you did a google search and found numerous choices is part of the problem, not a solution.
 
Walken said:
Place him on ignore mate, we need to resist the temptation to involve the mods in the CA forum.

Trolls like this rely on energy either positive or negative, give them none.
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Agree.

Ignorant opinions and even alternate facts are allowed. The site will not be arbiters of fact.

edit: And, I struggled mightily with that through COVID as a brand new mod, but I do now see Danny's point
 
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