Current Affairs General US politics (ie, not POTUS related)

[LiamG]

No that's the 'alt right according to Richard Spencer'. There are many folks that identify as alt right and as white supremacists.

Spencer claims to not be a white supremacist, but also wants a white ethno state in North America. I have news for Spencer. He will have to go to war to achieve his goal and he will lose. Anyway don't get me started on that guy. He is a danger because he's just peddling the same crap white supremacists have always peddled just under the guise of some pseudo-intellectual ideology.



The US is a Federal Republic not a culture.



Islam is a religion not a culture or a nation. We have lots of American Muslims. In a nation where freedom of religion is a fundamental part of the American idea surely you wouldn't single out Muslims as some sort of unwelcome group.

You brought him up. I just said our worst are the mainstream in most other non western cultures.

The US is a culture. Its very individual driven. That is different to anywhere including Europe and I also don't buy the argument Europe is better. Now they are actually having to deal with the issue of mass migration things are changing even in places like Sweden.

Of course there's overlap but Islamic cultures especially those in the middle east aren't good and people like to complain about western culture especially ironically Muslims. Its a weird double standard that apparently we are all to happy to agree with.

I've no problem with Muslims who differentiate between religion and culture. People are free to worship whoever they want. I have a problem with anyone who wants to impose their beliefs on other people. BTW that includes those on the religious right.

 

[ilikecheese]

You brought him up. I just said our worst are the mainstream in most other non western cultures.

The US is a culture. Its very individual driven. That is different to anywhere including Europe and I also don't buy the argument Europe is better. Now they are actually having to deal with the issue of mass migration things are changing even in places like Sweden.

Of course there's overlap but Islamic cultures especially those in the middle east aren't good and people like to complain about western culture especially ironically Muslims. Its a weird double standard that apparently we are all to happy to agree with.

I brought him up because he is the danger behind the whole idea of the 'alt right' that you brought up. In fact a lot of what you say seems to be quite in line with his views.

The US is a Federal Republic not a culture. We have some shared fundamental beliefs outlined in the Declaration of Indepence and the Constitution, but the US is just words on paper it, is not a culture. The culture in Slidell, Louisiana is not the same as the culture in Seattle, Washington. We share the American idea, but culturally we are very different.

The US is a multicultural society enriched by every wave of immigrants who have come here seeking the 'American dream'. It wasn't so long ago that folks of Spencer's ilk treated the Italians and the Irish as if they were second class citizens. His nationalism isn't new. It's just dressed up a little different.

Islam is not a culture it is a religion. Calling Islamic 'cultures' especially in the Middle East 'not good' is a dangerous statement. I reject your narrow minded view. Have you ever considered why predominantly Muslim regions have developed a radical minority that hates the West? I suggest you do some reading.

 

[SteveSC]

No I just have a life.

Right so because the rest of us just happen to be on the internet occasionally on a Saturday night we don't have lives haha!! What are you 15?

@Ruairi77 is right to question your timeline.

We all have doubts.

I called you out for claiming to be American or even living here because of you said 'we' instead of them and then ridiculously claiming you flew from the UK to the US in 3 hours which you then claimed it was because of jet lag you forgot what day it was.

You then went out of your way to prove you live in NC so granted you live in the US. We accept that

Later you have claimed you were an immigrant yourself but never answer when asked where you hail from originally.

You now are dead set on convincing people you are a hardliner to the right and if you dispute or refute that or insult me or make up some other pathetic excuse we know you are trolling

With every post you lean more to the extreme. you are going of the deep end without a float or a paddle.

Here you are derailing another thread with your extreme views.

 

[LiamG]

I brought him up because he is the danger behind the whole idea of the 'alt right' that you brought up. In fact a lot of what you say seems to be quite in line with his views.

The US is a Federal Republic not a culture. We have some shared fundamental beliefs outlined in the Declaration of Indepence and the Constitution, but the US is just words on paper it, is not a culture. The culture in Slidell, Louisiana is not the same as the culture in Seattle, Washington. We share the American idea, but culturally we are very different.

The US is a multicultural society enriched by every wave of immigrants who have come here seeking the 'American dream'. It wasn't so long ago that folks of Spencer's ilk treated the Italians and the Irish as if they were second class citizens. His nationalism isn't new. It's just dressed up a little different.

Islam is not a culture it is a religion. Calling Islamic 'cultures' especially in the Middle East 'not good' is a dangerous statement. I reject your narrow minded view. Have you ever considered why predominantly Muslim regions have developed a radical minority that hates the West? I suggest you do some reading.

We know why they hate the west. It's the same reason the Christian right hate liberals (real liberals). Because they are a highly controlled society that fears liberty because people will ultimately want to be free and this will erode their power. They also hate it because of jealously. This is why these religious groups are so found of punishment. They want this to be true because if it isn't then their whole life is a waste.

Don't fall into this trap that its all our fault. Its this what is dangerous.

America is not a multicultural society. Its a multi racial society and my views are nothing similar to the alt right. In fact in a way those who believe in multiculturalism are closer to the alt right because like them you ultimately believe in segregation too. They just believe in segregation within a society. I believe in a society that has a culture influenced by many different cultures but ultimately still being one.

There are of course areas within the US which are different but leave a city for a change. The smaller towns even in these blue states are still not that different than the smaller towns in red states.

 

[LiamG]

Right so because the rest of us just happen to be on the internet occasionally on a Saturday night we don't have lives haha!! What are you 15?

@Ruairi77 is right to question your timeline.

We all have doubts.

I called you out for claiming to be American or even living here because of you said 'we' instead of them and then ridiculously claiming you flew from the UK to the US in 3 hours which you then claimed it was because of jet lag you forgot what day it was.

You then went out of your way to prove you live in NC so granted you live in the US. We accept that

Later you have claimed you were an immigrant yourself but never answer when asked where you hail from originally.

You now are dead set on convincing people you are a hardliner to the right and if you dispute or refute that or insult me or make up some other pathetic excuse we know you are trolling

With every post you lean more to the extreme. you are going of the deep end without a float or a paddle.

Here you are derailing another thread with your extreme views.

I posted early in my morning, before I went to bed and now when I have woke up.

You on the other hand posted a hour after me last night. So who is it that keeps weird hours.

I will assume you have just come home drunk and that's the reason for this post.

I'm a libertarian. That's neither a hardliner or not. I'm economically on the right and socially on the traditional liberal left.

The hard left want to control both the culture (they are the new church) and the economy. The right want to control the culture but at least they don't believe in controlling the economy. I believe in small government. Actually my beliefs are pretty old school American beliefs enshrined in the constitution.

I don't need to answer any personal questions.

My views also aren't extreme. I would vote for Bill Clinton. Its the country that has moved to the extremes. Although NAFTA was a disaster.

 

[DanEFC92]

Just your run of the mill republican candidate

 

[LiamG]

Just your run of the mill republican candidate

This guy is challenging Paul Ryan the republican speaker of the house. He has no support from the GOP.

Seriously its as if some BLM cop killer ran against Nancy Pelosi and I said that was indicative of a democrat candidate. The only difference is they probably would have support and media would fawn over them.

This should be in the fake news thread.

 

[DanEFC92]

This guy is challenging Paul Ryan the republican speaker of the house. He has no support from the GOP.

Seriously its as if some BLM cop killer ran against Nancy Pelosi and I said that was indicative of a democrat candidate. The only difference is they probably would have support and media would fawn over them.

This should be in the fake news thread.

Bizarre hypothetical (and false equivalence) you used there.

'Run of the mill' being a exaggeration for effect quip about the abundance of racist republican candidates out there.

Are there any 'BLM cop killers' out there running for office? No? Would a murderer be celebrated in the media? Not bloody likely.

 

[LiamG]

Bizarre hypothetical (and false equivalence) you used there.

'Run of the mill' being a exaggeration for effect quip about the abundance of racist republican candidates out there.

Are there any 'BLM cop killers' out there running for office? No? Would a murderer be celebrated in the media? Not bloody likely.

Nothing would surprise me today.

A person who was convicted of releasing state secrets charged with aiding the enemy and while cleared of that convicted of other crimes is now running to be a senator.

Democrats have shown support for BLM, an ideology that these cop killers have taken inspiration from.

Plus I did say IF.

 

[tsubaki]

We know why they hate the west. It's the same reason the Christian right hate liberals (real liberals). Because they are a highly controlled society that fears liberty because people will ultimately want to be free and this will erode their power. They also hate it because of jealously. This is why these religious groups are so found of punishment. They want this to be true because if it isn't then their whole life is a waste.

Don't fall into this trap that its all our fault. Its this what is dangerous.

America is not a multicultural society. Its a multi racial society and my views are nothing similar to the alt right. In fact in a way those who believe in multiculturalism are closer to the alt right because like them you ultimately believe in segregation too. They just believe in segregation within a society. I believe in a society that has a culture influenced by many different cultures but ultimately still being one.

There are of course areas within the US which are different but leave a city for a change. The smaller towns even in these blue states are still not that different than the smaller towns in red states.

"They" don't hate the West because they are a highly controlled society that fears liberty; those of them who hate the West usually do so because we have kept them under the thumb of highly controlled societies that fear liberty. Western policy in the Middle East since 1945 has been a fairly consistent sequence of Arab nationalist / secular regimes or attempts at regimes being put down by the West, or Western-backed Sunni fundamentalists, or Western-backed dictators - or in the case which really winds them up a Western-backed religious state which has kept a million and a half of them in what is effect a giant prison for nearly a decade. In their own country, and because they voted a particular way in a free and fair election.

 

[ilikecheese]

I am going to leave your ignorant Muslim argument...it's not worth my energy.

They just believe in segregation within a society.

Wait what? Accepting that America is a multicultural society is somehow promoting segregation? This makes no sense whatsoever.

There are of course areas within the US which are different but leave a city for a change. The smaller towns even in these blue states are still not that different than the smaller towns in red states.

Oh so there is more than one culture. An urban culture and a rural culture? I would generally agree, but I have lived all over this country and I can tell you that you are wrong that rural place X has the same culture as rural place Y.

How many states have you actually lived in?

 

[LiamG]

"They" don't hate the West because they are a highly controlled society that fears liberty; those of them who hate the West usually do so because we have kept them under the thumb of highly controlled societies that fear liberty. Western policy in the Middle East since 1945 has been a fairly consistent sequence of Arab nationalist / secular regimes or attempts at regimes being put down by the West, or Western-backed Sunni fundamentalists, or Western-backed dictators - or in the case which really winds them up a Western-backed religious state which has kept a million and a half of them in what is effect a giant prison for nearly a decade. In their own country, and because they voted a particular way in a free and fair election.

Since 1945. Why not go back further than that. Why not talk about the Ottoman Empire. Why not talk about the Islamic conquest of Western cultures. Even the Ottoman empire defeated the East Roman empire, and took its land, a western christian empire. Was that because they kept them under the thumb also?

No so stop cherry picking history.

In fact let's then talk about more recent history.

Those on the left advocated we should just withdraw, and begin to treat the Islamic world differently and look what resulted. ISIS, the rise of the Muslim brotherhood, groups that persecuted Christians and even other Muslims of more moderate sects.

These are the groups they votes in or supported. I hoped the Arab spring would turn out different but it didn't and it showed the West while supporting dictators isn't good its the only option.

Blaming the West is nothing but self hatred and its incredibly dangerous.

 

[roydo]

Those on the left advocated we should just withdraw, and begin to treat the Islamic world differently and look what resulted. ISIS, the rise of the Muslim brotherhood, groups that persecuted Christians and even other Muslims of more moderate sects.

Happy to be educated on Merican politics and that, but wernt Bush Mk1 and Mark11 in charge when a lot of the seeds of ^^^^^ were sown? I thought they were on the right of Merican politics. Might be wrong though.

 

[LiamG]

Happy to be educated on Merican politics and that, but wernt Bush Mk1 and Mark11 in charge when a lot of the seeds of ^^^^^ were sown? I thought they were on the right of Merican politics. Might be wrong though.

Yes they were. They thought the people were ready for secular democracy and totally underestimated the power of the clergy and tribal leaders.

I think only a long program with the support of the royal families and dictators to weaken the power of religion and Islam and a gradual move to secular democracy will work.

But we have to stop judging Middle Eastern leaders the way we do Western. Ultimately and I hate to say it but it takes a strongman to keep these countries under control otherwise we will be left with more countries like Iran and that's not good for the people or the world.

 

[roydo]

Those on the left advocated we should just withdraw, and begin to treat the Islamic world differently and look what resulted. ISIS, the rise of the Muslim brotherhood, groups that persecuted Christians and even other Muslims of more moderate sects.

So that ^^^^^

Ultimately and I hate to say it but it takes a strongman to keep these countries under control otherwise we will be left with more countries like Iran and that's not good for the people or the world.

Totally contradicts ^^^^

Because you accept that strongman tactics have been a cause of all this. Your arrogance is astounding.