Everton: we look an unhappy camp

[Gladystweet]

I think you may be on to something here. This was Dave's entire contribution to the Sunderland game thread from a few weeks ago

View attachment 31387

5 posts.

Shocking that mate, get that battery charged.

 

[ianefc]

Shocking that mate, get that battery charged.

Hahaha, the signal was poor also.

 

[Lanolin]

Before you laugh too hard notice how none of his goals are against any of them.

I get the point you're making. I think the point I'm making that you don't get is you don't only need skill to make it, you need opportunity at a young age. Some managers are really good at that but most are too scared to take any risks because of the intense pressure they're under to get results. It's far easier to play an international player and let the blame fall on the player than to have courage in your own convictions and give a young player a chance.

People go on about these extensive scouting networks and how good they are and how if someone is talented enough they'll make it, yet how did scouts from all the Premier League teams miss a player like Vardy when he was a young player?

If it was that easy to spot talented players and know, with conviction, that they were good enough to play top level football players like Vardy would never be overlooked in the first place. That's why it's important to give young players a chance to show wether they are good enough or not. It's not always easy for a manager to decide how good a player can be without giving them a chance at senior level.

It's rare that players come along that are so talented they stand out a level above other players but that doesn't mean there aren't players that are good enough to play premier league football if given the chance to play and develop their game at a decent age.

I do find it ironic that you have so much faith in a player who scored less goals than Arouna Kone last season. I'm glad you'll be happy that we have a classy 'international' striker to play in Lukaku's place if he gets injured long term.

Personally I'll be worried if we have to rely on Valencia for goals.

I understand what you're saying, and I actually agree to an extent.

You're still totally misunderstanding my point though. I don't have faith in Valencia at all, I'm on record as saying I don't rate him and thought he was a bad signing from the off. You're falling into the sports fans favourite trap of 'he can't be any worse than ....' though. They most certainly can be worse, and usually are.

Just because valencias not great doesn't mean that he's not better than someone who goes on to play for Aberystwyth town for the majority of their career. I don't see a lot of the youth sides anymore but I can tell you with 100% certainty that Valencia is better than mcaleny, agard, jutkiewicz etc, who were the equivalent players that 'couldn't be any worse' a few years back. Chris long was another who people were up in arms about leaving. He played representative football right up to England under 20s but anyone think it looks like a bad decision so far? The majority of youth players are simply not good enough to make it at the very top level, it's an indisputable fact.

You mentioned Kone as another joke player, but he scored a premier league hat trick last year. How many players have we ever produced through our youth ranks who've done that? I reckon probably one, and that wasn't even for us.

 

[bcblue1878]

All of it is laughable.

Regardless of which side of the fence people are on its absolutely ridiculous to judge Koeman's Everton this early.

This works both ways. The people saying that we are better than we were last season are just as annoying and kneejerky as the ones who are saying he is rubbish.

"but we are only a couple of wins off a champions league spot!"
"We are only a coupe of losses away from a relegation fight"

So bloody what?? At this point of the season that could be said about most teams!

Until he has had a full season (at the very least) where the results are at least comparable how can anyone judge one way or another?

Doesnt matter what someone in the past did for me anyway. A manager is judged on his own merits not what he has done compared to somebody else.

Best post I've read in the thread so far, 19 pages down only 17 to go!

 

[summerisle]

Sissoko pudding sounds like some trendy new dessert for hipsters.

Or an abandoned ghost town in Wyoming.

 

[davek]

I think he knows Jags is past it hence the substitution, Koeman knows as well as we all do that most of these players are crap that's why he's been calling out the board to start acting like a top club and spending money on quality players but like you I'm not impressed with the type of players he's been going after

Not sure he's been doing that like.

 

[davek]

I think you may be on to something here. This was Dave's entire contribution to the Sunderland game thread from a few weeks ago

View attachment 31387

5 posts.

Frightening.

 

[MikeH72]

I think you may be on to something here. This was Dave's entire contribution to the Sunderland game thread from a few weeks ago

View attachment 31387

5 posts.

It's a real mystery how the posts stop as soon as we start scoring.

 

[ianefc]

It's a real mystery how the posts stop as soon as we start scoring.

Not the only time it's happened either.

 

[davek]

Not the only time it's happened either.

Stamp your feet all you like. Something is [starting to smell] rotten in the Kingdom of Denmark.

 

[Osamabindiesel]

I don't know whether the poor form is due to confidence or the manager. It certainly looks like the players have lost the fight that they had earlier in the year; it is still too early to tell though. We just need a 90 minute performance. I don't think we have had that once under Koeman.

 

[whiteshadow]

I understand what you're saying, and I actually agree to an extent.

You're still totally misunderstanding my point though. I don't have faith in Valencia at all, I'm on record as saying I don't rate him and thought he was a bad signing from the off. You're falling into the sports fans favourite trap of 'he can't be any worse than ....' though. They most certainly can be worse, and usually are.

Just because valencias not great doesn't mean that he's not better than someone who goes on to play for Aberystwyth town for the majority of their career. I don't see a lot of the youth sides anymore but I can tell you with 100% certainty that Valencia is better than mcaleny, agard, jutkiewicz etc, who were the equivalent players that 'couldn't be any worse' a few years back. Chris long was another who people were up in arms about leaving. He played representative football right up to England under 20s but anyone think it looks like a bad decision so far? The majority of youth players are simply not good enough to make it at the very top level, it's an indisputable fact.

You mentioned Kone as another joke player, but he scored a premier league hat trick last year. How many players have we ever produced through our youth ranks who've done that? I reckon probably one, and that wasn't even for us.

I agree that many won't be good enough but I think there will be some players that are worthy of being given a chance. Martinez, for all his faults, was quite happy to play a few of our younger players and they all did pretty well considering.

I'm not expecting all our youth players to be the next Wayne Rooney just when I see the likes of Valencia and Cleverley come on and I can't figure out what they're going to add to our chances of winning I think why not try one of the younger players. If they don't turn out to be good enough at least you know and maybe one or two might step up and turn out to be better than expected.

Holgate, Davies, Browning, etc have all done pretty well when I've seen them, better than some of the senior players and they seem prepared to roll up their sleeves and fight for the team which is what has been lacking with some of our players this season.

 

[MikeH72]

Stamp your feet all you like. Something is [starting to smell] rotten in the Kingdom of Denmark.

There's a few people stamping their feet round here, but Ian deffo isn't one of them

 

[Lanolin]

I agree that many won't be good enough but I think there will be some players that are worthy of being given a chance. Martinez, for all his faults, was quite happy to play a few of our younger players and they all did pretty well considering.

I'm not expecting all our youth players to be the next Wayne Rooney just when I see the likes of Valencia and Cleverley come on and I can't figure out what they're going to add to our chances of winning I think why not try one of the younger players. If they don't turn out to be good enough at least you know and maybe one or two might step up and turn out to be better than expected.

Holgate, Davies, Browning, etc have all done pretty well when I've seen them, better than some of the senior players and they seem prepared to roll up their sleeves and fight for the team which is what has been lacking with some of our players this season.

Again I agree to a point but I suppose that's what training is for. We never see these players so we say 'maybe Henen is better than mirallas, or Walsh is better than mccarthy' but the managers and coaches see them every day and go 'nah, they're really not you know'.

I'm always a big fan of seeing young lads getting a go, especially local lads, but it's rarely the answer unfortunately.

 

[Arteta2391]

new season

same ol' Everton