Everton fanbase - how to make a positive contribution to the team's success

chrismpw

Player Valuation: £50m
You assume wrong. I was just pointing out the ridiculousness of your argument not saying we should all boo. I don't boo at the games, but I do moan and groan. It's part and parcel really, you can't invest yourself in the game and be passionate without it working both ways. I could sit there passively and silently observe the game, or I can roar them on, sing and shout and encourage, but then be frustrated when it goes wrong. It's not really possible to get behind them relentlessly without ever letting your frustration out unless you're one of cheerleader types who's just there for the bantz and doesn't really care about the result.
You might disagree with my argument, but to call it ridiculous is nothing more than hyperbole.
I've said that I totally get the derision. My point is it is entirely negative to give into it. If we want our team to do well we HAVE to be smart and disciplined to encourage them even when they're doing badly. You can call those who know this all kinds of names if you like, happy clappers, cheerleaders, whatever, but i'd argue that these are doing more to support the team than those indulging in a grizzle.
 

Lanolin

Player Valuation: £35m
You might disagree with my argument, but to call it ridiculous is nothing more than hyperbole.
I've said that I totally get the derision. My point is it is entirely negative to give into it. If we want our team to do well we HAVE to be smart and disciplined to encourage them even when they're doing badly. You can call those who know this all kinds of names if you like, happy clappers, cheerleaders, whatever, but i'd argue that these are doing more to support the team than those indulging in a grizzle.
No, all I was saying was ridiculous was the point about everyday workers. You can't compare the two like that, it simply doesn't work. I'm not arguing that being negative doesn't transmit to the players, just that you can't say 'how would you feel' because it's a totally different situation.
 

chrismpw

Player Valuation: £50m
No, all I was saying was ridiculous was the point about everyday workers. You can't compare the two like that, it simply doesn't work. I'm not arguing that being negative doesn't transmit to the players, just that you can't say 'how would you feel' because it's a totally different situation.
Well ok, I get that point. But replace the boos with constant negative criticism from boss and other work colleagues, and how does that sound?
 

chrismpw

Player Valuation: £50m
Oh another dig at the paying fans nice.
I'm not sure the true sentiment of this thread is about having a dig. We all follow the same team and we all share the same frustrations and bamboozlement at their serial failures. We have to look at all possible contributions to that, that are within our influence and crowd effect certainly has to be massive, otherwise what's the point of anybody cheering and chanting?

All we all want is for the bunch of over privileged clowns to do better!
 

Lanolin

Player Valuation: £35m
Well ok, I get that point. But replace the boos with constant negative criticism from boss and other work colleagues, and how does that sound?
Again. it's different.

Part of being a footballer is being able to deal with that type of thing, it's literally part of the job and you have to be able to deal with it. Surgeons work every day knowing that a mistake could mean somebody dies, they lose their job and potentially go to prison. They have to be able to handle that pressure or it's not the career for them. Footballers have to work knowing that a mistake might mean some fans get on their back and say mean things. They have to be able to deal with that or it's not the career for them.
 

chrismpw

Player Valuation: £50m
Again. it's different.

Part of being a footballer is being able to deal with that type of thing, it's literally part of the job and you have to be able to deal with it. Surgeons work every day knowing that a mistake could mean somebody dies, they lose their job and potentially go to prison. They have to be able to handle that pressure or it's not the career for them. Footballers have to work knowing that a mistake might mean some fans get on their back and say mean things. They have to be able to deal with that or it's not the career for them.
I agree - but we want to male things better right? You wouldn't want to go under the knife and the last thing you hear is the surgeon being ridiculed for slicing off the wrong part last time! We are humans and we make mistakes, so are footballers. Perhaps one day we can afford those with better mental resilience, but in the meantime we have to work what we have. Cheer them to an unsatisfactory seventh or eighth, or boo them down to the relegation zone. It will be the better players who leave, not the ones who know they've reached beyond their limit.

Humans tend to make more mistakes when under pressure, or when we're reminded that we're not all that.
 

PhilRegan

Player Valuation: £2.5m
I'm not sure the true sentiment of this thread is about having a dig. We all follow the same team and we all share the same frustrations and bamboozlement at their serial failures. We have to look at all possible contributions to that, that are within our influence and crowd effect certainly has to be massive, otherwise what's the point of anybody cheering and chanting?

All we all want is for the bunch of over privileged clowns to do better!
To be honest each fan is an individual anyway, who is entitled to support their team any which way they want. Some may or may not Boo it's totally up to them but we all can agree that 24 years of failure is going to push a lot of match going fans to the limit.

Hard earned money and many years of life given to the club and what do we get back ? A lot of people have had enough but still want to support Everton.
 

chrismpw

Player Valuation: £50m
To be honest each fan is an individual anyway, who is entitled to support their team any which way they want. Some may or may not Boo it's totally up to them but we all can agree that 24 years of failure is going to push a lot of match going fans to the limit.

Hard earned money and many years of life given to the club and what do we get back ? A lot of people have had enough but still want to support Everton.
I absolutely agree. But I'm convinced that if we want the best from our current crop of players and manager, we have to encourage the supporters to be louder and more vocal than those fans who don't withhold their frustrations.

Far better to cheer the team on the grass, then show derision at the management and board after the game, surely.
 

Prevenger17

Great turn of pace, an eye for goal...
I agree with the OP and from what I can see he's not 'blaming' the fans but questioning what positive difference can the fans make?

This really. Fans can be a positive influence, but there is a palpable sense that as soon as our team is under the cosh, the boos are coming. That's when we need support the most. It's not a question of blame, it's trying to see if there is anything the fans can do different to help.
 

PhilRegan

Player Valuation: £2.5m
I absolutely agree. But I'm convinced that if we want the best from our current crop of players and manager, we have to encourage the supporters to be louder and more vocal than those fans who don't withhold their frustrations.

Far better to cheer the team on the grass, then show derision at the management and board after the game, surely.
So let me get this straight. The fans who may or may not be happy, have to force themselves to clap and cheer regardless of the whats occurred on the pitch, because It may bring the best out of some of the no marks on the pitch and on the board ?
 

Everton_Gary

Player Valuation: £8m
So if I'm reading this right, go to the match, sing, cheer and clap the whole 90 minutes. When they get tonked 4-0 can we stop blaming the fans then?
 

zzr45

Player Valuation: £15m
Ahh a good old blame the fans thread.

If you think footballers are affected (on the whole) by the nasty men in the stands booing, then you are absolutely 100% incorrect.

Let's talk through a few of the reasons why:

A) Fans aren't part of a players 'support' network - Draw a big circle around a player and list how the interactions that a player has with them is likely to affect them. Directly you have partners, family etc as the first people they'll draw motivation from, next they'll most likely have their club manager, close friends, team mates, agent etc. Moving further on you'll have ancillary staff at a club, rehab specialists etc that kind of thing. You have to go a long way before fans that indirectly interact with players for 90 mins a week factor in. They are so far removed that them being negative has so little effect.

B) If you're affected by fans, you're mentally too weak to be at the top - Baz Rathbone's autobiography's overall message seems to point at this. Baz let the fans get on top of him, but really he was never mentally strong enough as a player to be where he was. His autobiography goes on to mention players getting in his head far too easily. Don't forget most players work with sports psychologists on mindfulness. If they've just made a mistake, they are most likely blocking everything out to recompose.

C) The 12th Man effect is a myth - The biggy! The 12th Man effect is something that has been influenced by American Football. From there it was found that teams tended to lose on the road when crowds were louder. Why? Simply they couldn't hear each other either in huddles or delivering snap counts. Results, more penalties, yards lost etc. Whilst there's anecdotal evidence that players get a boost after a big play, it's more of a reinforcement to existing good feeling within a player - so the crowds appreciation of a well made tackle, pass, goal etc. I've never not known that happen.

Come at me brahs.
 

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