Current Affairs EU In or Out

[The Esk]

Only 2.2% of DWP working age benefit claimants are from EU countries, yet they account for 5.1% of the total population.

 

[abelard]

What happened to the others Esk, genuine question, I don't know the answer and I just wondered

they are simultaneously not working, and Taking Our Jobs

 

[Ratkiller]

I understand exactly how and why. A false, untrue and damaging agenda perpetrated by the right wing press which sadly many people swallowed hook, line and sinker.

Lovely stuff.

Esk mind reads more than half the population.

 

[peteblue]

They came to rape and plunder.

Hahaha.......

 

[edge]

So the fact that the majority of migrants are more qualified than the native population means they're somehow nothing but a cheap labour pool? As for comments on the NHS and so on, you're attempting to refute evidence with zero evidence. It would help your case significantly if you could show that migrants are impacting the NHS or housing or wages. Can you?

Yes I can actually look at the figure published in 2015 by the bank of England on the impact on the lowest paid it works out about 1% over an 8 years period, loads of other studies to back it
They may be well educated , but are taking up low paid unskilled work 80% going on todays figure.
Lets say there are roughly 4 million of them, 4 to a house that's being generous , that 1 million more homes that would be added for use in the housing stock, what would that do to the price of the housing ,rent costs ect like any other product oversupply would cause a drop in prices just like milk or any thing else you care to name, and would give those lower down the housing ladder access to cheaper and better standard housing than they can currently afford.
As for the NHS, visitors from the EU trading area cost 130+ million to the NHS in 2014/15.
I hope your not seriously saying that all immigrants are super fit , don't get ill or have kids so don't need access to doctors, so common sense will tell you that covering 4 million extra people comes at a cost,,don't forget you would have to factor in what it has cost generations of UK citizens through there contributions to build over the years not just the cost of plasters ect for the year.

 

[peteblue]

The really silly thing is demographics. Pensions are the largest budget item the government has. Not only do most migrants have a net-contribution to the state coffers, they are also by and large of working age. You could easily argue that our retired population is already unsustainable against the size of the working age population, and if you significantly reduce the number of working age migrants that can come, it's only going to make that situation worse.

It's quite the performance from the Tories to pander to retirees, who are their core demographic, whilst also pinning the blame on the very people who help to fund the lifestyle of those retirees.

What is this crap about funding the retired. No one, repeat no one funds me except myself. Retired folk have paid into the system for all their working lives, 40-50 years worth of work and taxation, to pay for their pensions. To even suggest that immigration is being used to fund it is not just laughable but insulting......

 

[peteblue]

I understand exactly how and why. A false, untrue and damaging agenda perpetrated by the right wing press which sadly many people swallowed hook, line and sinker.

If you truly believe that, then you truly have no understanding of why the vote went as it did, and it may just explain your hostility to those that voted to leave........

 

[joey_macmo]

I understand exactly how and why. A false, untrue and damaging agenda perpetrated by the right wing press which sadly many people swallowed hook, line and sinker.

I find it absolutely insane that this post from the esk gets attacked when these posts defending incorrect figures and statements surround it

LBC news just announced it?

Watch the DP my hearing must be going ?

 

[joey_macmo]

What is this crap about funding the retired. No one, repeat no one funds me except myself. Retired folk have paid into the system for all their working lives, 40-50 years worth of work and taxation, to pay for their pensions. To even suggest that immigration is being used to fund it is not just laughable but insulting......

Feel insulted all you want Pete, you paid for the pensioners when you were of working age and the same is happening now, it's how the system works.

I'd have thought a person who negotiated multi million dollar trade deals would know that already.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yes I can actually look at the figure published in 2015 by the bank of England on the impact on the lowest paid it works out about 1% over an 8 years period, loads of other studies to back it
They may be well educated , but are taking up low paid unskilled work 80% going on todays figure.
Lets say there are roughly 4 million of them, 4 to a house that's being generous , that 1 million more homes that would be added for use in the housing stock, what would that do to the price of the housing ,rent costs ect like any other product oversupply would cause a drop in prices just like milk or any thing else you care to name, and would give those lower down the housing ladder access to cheaper and better standard housing than they can currently afford.
As for the NHS, visitors from the EU trading area cost 130+ million to the NHS in 2014/15.
I hope your not seriously saying that all immigrants are super fit , don't get ill or have kids so don't need access to doctors, so common sense will tell you that covering 4 million extra people comes at a cost,,don't forget you would have to factor in what it has cost generations of UK citizens through there contributions to build over the years not just the cost of plasters ect for the year.

Not that I doubt you, but could you link up those sources, I'd be interested on reading them. Regarding your last point on the NHS, the biggest users of the NHS (by some distance) are those in the final days of their life, and those in the initial days of their life. On average, EU migrants tend to be of working age, and often without children (less so than the average for the population), so whilst they will of course use the NHS, the taxes they pay seem to more than cover it.

What is this crap about funding the retired. No one, repeat no one funds me except myself. Retired folk have paid into the system for all their working lives, 40-50 years worth of work and taxation, to pay for their pensions. To even suggest that immigration is being used to fund it is not just laughable but insulting......

I'm inclined to think that's wishful thinking Pete. We're talking about state pensions here, not private ones. They're paid for out of general taxation.

"The state pension is paid for by national insurance contributions, which come from the wages of people working today.

Effectively, each working generation pays for the older generation above them. However, NI is also used to pay other benefits, such as to the unemployed."

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-2787888/how-state-pension-funded-cash-runs.html

I'm sure you're well aware that when the state pension was initiated, there were something akin to 6 working people for each retiree (and those retirees perhaps lived a few years in retirement. Now, that figure is half that, and retired people are living nearly 20 years in retirement.

 

[The Esk]

If you truly believe that, then you truly have no understanding of why the vote went as it did, and it may just explain your hostility to those that voted to leave........

Hostility ? the floor is yours to show whenever I have been hostile.

 

[bflefc]

Its not proved beyond doubt its good for the UK to anybody other than those that wish to believe it,
any figures I have seen, cover a marrow perceptive ie benefit to employers ,tax collection, nowhere does it take into account the cost to the NHS. schooling ,housing ect overcrowding or the downward push on the wages of many in this country.
Skill shortages and genuine refugees , no problem with but this unregulated mass immigration is nothing but a cheap labour pool, needs addressing and quick.

This. I'd also ask if there's any proof that those who's jobs might be considered to have instead been taken by immigrants are then able to likewise be net contributors to society.

 

[edge]

Not that I doubt you, but could you link up those sources, I'd be interested on reading them. Regarding your last point on the NHS, the biggest users of the NHS (by some distance) are those in the final days of their life, and those in the initial days of their life. On average, EU migrants tend to be of working age, and often without children (less so than the average for the population), so whilst they will of course use the NHS, the taxes they pay seem to more than cover it.



I'm inclined to think that's wishful thinking Pete. We're talking about state pensions here, not private ones. They're paid for out of general taxation.

"The state pension is paid for by national insurance contributions, which come from the wages of people working today.

Effectively, each working generation pays for the older generation above them. However, NI is also used to pay other benefits, such as to the unemployed."

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-2787888/how-state-pension-funded-cash-runs.html

I'm sure you're well aware that when the state pension was initiated, there were something akin to 6 working people for each retiree (and those retirees perhaps lived a few years in retirement. Now, that figure is half that, and retired people are living nearly 20 years in retirement.

source for low pay the Bank Of England staff working paper number 574 its a long and quite boring read but feel free, here is a quicker summing up.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...down-wages-offered-to-British-jobseekers.html.
are those the ones you want the others only came out today, sure they will be all over the internet and interview with politicians, there was one on bbc radio 4 about 1.30 if you have the player.
sorry in work so cant get the link will not let me do it.

 

[peteblue]

Feel insulted all you want Pete, you paid for the pensioners when you were of working age and the same is happening now, it's how the system works.

I'd have thought a person who negotiated multi million dollar trade deals would know that already.

I'd expect you not to understand my comment and you did not disappoint......

 

[peteblue]

Hostility ? the floor is yours to show whenever I have been hostile.

Perhaps too strong a word, but definition number 3 covers it.....


noun, plural hostilities.
1.
a hostile state, condition, or attitude; enmity; antagonism; unfriendliness.
2.
a hostile act.
3.
opposition or resistance to an idea, plan, project, etc.