Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
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peteblue said:
And so it begins......

"Pontypridd MP Owen Smith, who was defeated in his bid to be elected Labour leader this summer, seized on this morning’s verdict by judges to push for a re-running of the historic vote to quit the EU.

Despite a majority of the British public backing Brexit, with 17.4million supporting Leave on June 23, Mr Smith called for UK voters to be given the “final say” on the “real terms” of Brexit in another ballot.

But Mr Smith’s demand sparked immediate claims from fellow Labour MPs the party would be “committing electoral suicide” by agitating for a second referendum."
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This could indeed finish Labour. Silver linings and all that.
 
Anders_Limpar said:
Of course - the question is whether Corbyn would fancy his chances of taking on a Tory party that will continue to have the same European debate that has threatened to split them for years...

And let's face it, it would be pretty damning for an opposition to not want a general election, and therefore an opportunity to get power.
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That's true...and it'd be manna from heaven for a PLP that see a GE defeat as the silver bullet to cut short Corbyn's time as leader.

Not sure if it'd suit the SNP and other parties though, or whether their combined total makes it impossible - % of MPs required-wise - to trigger a GE.
 
Old Blue 2 said:
Very interesting, what you quoted from Twitter, Esk.

If I may quote a certain part of it:
"...The ECA 1972 cannot be regarded as silent on the question of what happens to EU rights in domestic law if the Crown seeks to take action on the international plane to undo them. Either the Act reserves power to do that, including by giving notice under Article 50, or it does not. In our view, it clearly does not..."

Now the above may be legal dynamite. Legal dynamite for the Judges, I might add.

For the following reasons (and I'm not being flippant when I put this together):
1. Direct reference is made to undoing rights if the Crown seeks to take action on the matter (i.e. overturn what has previously been enacted by Parliament via an Act of Parliament).
2. Three thing happen/can happen to an Act of Parliament: 1. it is enacted when finally passed; 2. it is changed by subsequent amending Regulations; and 3. it is repealed.
3. Now I come to the crux of the matter. This sentence: "Either the Act reserves power to do that, including by giving notice under Article 50, or it does not." And the crux is this: if Article 50 is enshrined in a present, ongoing, Act of Parliament, then it is for the Government of the day to determine if that legal enshrinement should be acted upon. While that Act is current, it is for the Government to decide whether to act on it, or not (NOT Judges).
4. And this is where I see the legal problem. What has been said, on the Judges's say-so, is that the Government does not have the legal clout or authority to go along the road of implementing Article 50, which Article is current and legal. In saying "In our view, it clearly does not." they are saying that Article 50 cannot be invoked to undo EU rights in domestic law by taking action on the international plane (to withdraw from the EU, in other words).
5. By what I have explained in '4' above, Judges are interfering directly with the operations of the State. Nothing less. They may seek to claim that they are simply making a legal ruling on the interpretation of the wording of an Act of Parliament. However, it is one thing to rule on the wording of an Act, it is another thing altogether to interfere with the intent.
6. I haven't read the full decision of the Judges (but am interested in doing so), but I believe they would have to show that a part or parts of the Act they have examined are considered to be ultra vires for their decision to carry legal weight. It is only by saying that what is presently contained in the relevant legislation has gone beyond what is legally permissible, that their judgement today will carry the day in a subsequent appeal to a higher court.

It's gonna be a very interesting next few months, either way.

Apologies, also, for the long post.
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I think the most salient point you make is point 2 in that an Act of Parliament either remains on the statute book, or is amended or removed.

It is only Parliament that can amend or remove an Act of Parliament, it is not the Government or executive of the day.

That's the most fundamental principle of the UK constitution.

This principle is referred to in the judgement with an extract from 'An Introduction to the Law of the Constitution' by Professor AV Dicey where he explains the principle of Parliamentary sovereignty, meaning that Parliament has:

'The right to make or unmade any law whatever, and further, that no person or body is recognised by law.......as having a right to override or set aside the legislation of Parliament'

I am not following your argument that the Judges need show any more than this most fundamental principle.
 
Bit late to this, Talksport didnt exactly dissect the story today.

So, a court has said that Parliament has to vote to push the Clause 50 button, (hands up who had even heard of it a few months ago), cos thats the, er, law?

And the PM is appealing that decision to another court?

So, eventually, if still unresolved in the UK court system, it would be referred to the EU Supreme Court...........

Glad this was so well thought out in advance.
 
dandydan said:
As I'm sure all of you are aware parliment had a vote on holding the referendum in the first place. So now they get to vote on wether to accept the result of a vote on something that they voted to happen in the first place.
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Yes and they voted for an advisory referendum.

It appears once again that a lot of people were unaware of that fact.
 
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