Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
Status
Not open for further replies.
Glad this has happened today not because I think this will stop it happening, but some accountability to the deal has got to be a good thing.

Really don't understand how anyone could think otherwise.

Going to be interesting to see what the leave supporting MP's from constituencies that voted to remain do though.

Parliament was massively in favour of remaining pre the vote so I can understand why leavers getting a bit nippy, but seems very unlikely that many MPs would go against their areas vote and vote to veto article 50 regardless. Surely this goes both ways though? If leave MP's in remain areas vote for the implementation of article 50, does this then give license to the others?...
 
This amplifies what I said earlier in the day about the imbalance between judgements made when the PM wants 'more europe' and today's where the PM wants 'less europe'........it's going to get very interesting.......

A deeply troubling and wrong-headed decision
By Lawyers for Britain (Martin Howe QC, Thomas Sharpe QC, Clive Thorne, Francis Hoar)

When it comes to using the prerogative for “less Europe”, there are implied limitations which do not seem to exist for “more Europe”.

The Divisional Court has, to the surprise of most informed observers, decided that it is outside the prerogative powers of the Crown for notice to be given under Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union to withdraw from the European Union.

In reaching this decision, the judgment has overturned the accepted understanding about the respective power of the Crown on the international plane to accede to and withdraw from international treaties, and the powers of Parliament to alter the internal law of the United Kingdom.

The European Communities Act 1972 was a constitutional innovation for the United Kingdom. It linked international treaties directly to the internal law of the United Kingdom by giving the European Treaties and supranational legislation made under them so called “direct effect”. That means that they have force in UK internal law - and therefore alter the content of the law - without recourse to Parliament.

The judgment argues that this feature of the 1972 Act means that the Crown has no power to withdraw from the EU treaties, because doing so would have the effect of altering domestic law, which only Parliament can do.

This argument is illogical and does not hold water. There are many acts which the Government can carry out on the international plane under the European treaties which have the effect of altering UK domestic law, and in doing so either confer rights on people or deprive them of rights.

Whenever the UK representative on the Council of Ministers joins in passing into law a directly applicable EU Regulation then the Crown in using the prerogative power to alter internal UK law without that alteration of the law going through Parliament. This is simply a consequence of the direct effect machinery of the 1972 Act.

So why should it be OK to have “more Europe” through exercise of the prerogative power, but wrong to have “less Europe” as a result of Article 50 being invoked and the direct effect parts of EU law ceasing to apply within the UK? Nothing in the wording of the 1972 Act supports such a distinction.

There is a further reason why this decision flies in the face of the obvious intention of Parliament. The Lisbon Treaty, which inserted Article 50 into the Treaty on European Union, was given effect in UK law by the European Union (Amendment) Act 2008. That Act therefore made the Article 50 power available for use by the Crown but did not specify that its exercise would need the approval of Parliament.

That Act however explicitly provides for Parliamentary control over certain prerogative acts under the EU treaties, including Article 49 on Treaty revision. But notably, the statutory scheme of Parliamentary control of prerogative power does not extend to notifications under Article 50.

There has a been a long string of attempted challenges to the use of the prerogative power to extend European Economic Community or European Union powers, all of which have been rejected by the courts, sometimes in peremptory terms.

However, when the prerogative is used to achieve “less Europe” in order to implement the decision of the British people, which an Act of Parliament empowered them to take, it is suddenly found that there are implied limitations on the prerogative power which prevent it being used for this purpose.

We welcome the decision of the Government to appeal from this judgment. We hope that the Supreme Court will apply the law in a more orthodox and logical way, allowing the Government to fulfil its promise to the British people to implement their clear decision.
 
And so it begins......

"Pontypridd MP Owen Smith, who was defeated in his bid to be elected Labour leader this summer, seized on this morning’s verdict by judges to push for a re-running of the historic vote to quit the EU.

Despite a majority of the British public backing Brexit, with 17.4million supporting Leave on June 23, Mr Smith called for UK voters to be given the “final say” on the “real terms” of Brexit in another ballot.

But Mr Smith’s demand sparked immediate claims from fellow Labour MPs the party would be “committing electoral suicide” by agitating for a second referendum."

Co incidentally you missed the part of the article which had the actual quotes. At least you're consistent.

Unfortunately it's doesn't backup the interpretation of the author. The same author who doesn't seem to know the Number of "general public" in the U.K.

He doesn't want a second in/out vote
 
Government official working on the terms of triggering Article 50 now.


giphy.gif
 
The Divisional Court has, to the surprise of most informed observers, decided that it is outside the prerogative powers of the Crown for notice to be given under Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union to withdraw from the European Union.

In treaties, because doing so would have the effect of altering domestic law, which only Parliament can do.

This argument is illogical and does not hold water. There are many acts which the Government can carry out on the international plane under the European treaties which have the effect of altering UK domestic law, and in doing so either confer rights on people or deprive them of rights.

Whenever the UK representative on the Council of Ministers joins in passing into law a directly applicable EU Regulation then the Crown in using the prerogative power to alter internal UK law without that alteration of the law going through Parliament. This is simply a consequence of the direct effect machinery of the 1972 Act.

So why should it be OK to have “more Europe” through exercise of the prerogative power, but wrong to have “less Europe” as a result of Article 50 being invoked and the direct effect parts of EU law ceasing to apply within the UK? Nothing in the wording of the 1972 Act supports such a distinction.

There is a further reason why this decision flies in the face of the obvious intention of Parliament. The Lisbon Treaty, which inserted Article 50 into the Treaty on European Union, was given effect in UK law by the European Union (Amendment) Act 2008. That Act therefore made the Article 50 power available for use by the Crown but did not specify that its exercise would need the approval of Parliament.

That Act however explicitly provides for Parliamentary control over certain prerogative acts under the EU treaties, including Article 49 on Treaty revision. But notably, the statutory scheme of Parliamentary control of prerogative power does not extend to notifications under Article 50.

There has a been a long string of attempted challenges to the use of the prerogative power to extend European Economic Community or European Union powers, all of which have been rejected by the courts, sometimes in peremptory terms.

However, when the prerogative is used to achieve “less Europe” in order to implement the decision of the British people, which an Act of Parliament empowered them to take, it is suddenly found that there are implied limitations on the prerogative power which prevent it being used for this purpose.


Lawers for Britain? Hardly an impartial view.

Lost me with the first sentence - most felt the case could go either way.
 
Co incidentally you missed the part of the article which had the actual quotes. At least you're consistent.

Unfortunately it's doesn't backup the interpretation of the author. The same author who doesn't seem to know the Number of "general public" in the U.K.

He doesn't want a second in/out vote
He did in his Labour party leadership bid!
 
Only happens if Labour and others agree. Fixed term parliament.

Of course - the question is whether Corbyn would fancy his chances of taking on a Tory party that will continue to have the same European debate that has threatened to split them for years...

And let's face it, it would be pretty damning for an opposition to not want a general election, and therefore an opportunity to get power.
 
Have to say though I think with the result today, we are inorexably heading toward a snap GE next year or another referendum.
Evidently an GE would change nothing, but delay it the government even at today's loss can put legal jargon into the article 50 bill just in a one liner form to put the MPs who say they respect the vote of the people and gamble what that result would be that has been mention by the way not my idea!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join the Everton conversation today.
Fewer ads, full access, completely free.

🛒 Visit Shop

Support Grand Old Team by checking out our latest Everton gear!
Back
Top