Just because you disagree with his opinion doesn't mean he didn't clearly answer the question. You may disagree with the opinion, but he did in fact answer the question.
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Just because you disagree with his opinion doesn't mean he didn't clearly answer the question. You may disagree with the opinion, but he did in fact answer the question.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Some things never change......
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Minister, Britain has had the same foreign policy objective for at least the last 500 years: to create a disunited Europe. In that cause we have fought with the Dutch against the Spanish, with the Germans against the French, with the French and Italians against the Germans, and with the French against the Germans and Italians. Divide and rule, you see. Why should we change now, when it's worked so well?
James Hacker: That's all ancient history, surely.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Yes, and current policy. We had to break the whole thing up, so we had to get inside. We tried to break it up from the outside, but that wouldn't work. Now that we're inside we can make a complete pig's breakfast of the whole thing: set the Germans against the French, the French against the Italians, the Italians against the Dutch. The Foreign Office is terribly pleased; it's just like old times.
James Hacker: Surely we're all committed to the European ideal.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Really, Minister.
[laughs]
James Hacker: If not, why are we pushing for an increase in the membership?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Well, for the same reason. It's just like the United Nations, in fact. The more members it has, the more arguments it can stir up. The more futile and impotent it becomes.
James Hacker: What appalling cynicism.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Yes. We call it diplomacy, Minister.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Minister, Britain has had the same foreign policy objective for at least the last 500 years: to create a disunited Europe. In that cause we have fought with the Dutch against the Spanish, with the Germans against the French, with the French and Italians against the Germans, and with the French against the Germans and Italians. Divide and rule, you see. Why should we change now, when it's worked so well?
James Hacker: That's all ancient history, surely.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Yes, and current policy. We had to break the whole thing up, so we had to get inside. We tried to break it up from the outside, but that wouldn't work. Now that we're inside we can make a complete pig's breakfast of the whole thing: set the Germans against the French, the French against the Italians, the Italians against the Dutch. The Foreign Office is terribly pleased; it's just like old times.
James Hacker: Surely we're all committed to the European ideal.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Really, Minister.
[laughs]
James Hacker: If not, why are we pushing for an increase in the membership?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Well, for the same reason. It's just like the United Nations, in fact. The more members it has, the more arguments it can stir up. The more futile and impotent it becomes.
James Hacker: What appalling cynicism.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Yes. We call it diplomacy, Minister.
gonetomorrow
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In like Flynn!
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
In which case you will be able to succinctly answer the question of "why free movement and free trade NEED be intertwined."......
It was the ransom it put in place, if they had not been in the Euro ????
Yea, that's what will happen. But this deal won't be as good as being a member of the single market. The markets know this which is why sterling has taken two major dips in the last few months. This will lead to inflation and, eventually, recession. A heavy price to pay to stop a few Romanians doing the [Poor language removed] jobs you didn't want to do anyway.
He believes there are four basic freedoms of movement in being in the EU and he feels that all of them are equally important. Trade was all encompassed as one of those freedoms...as well as workers.
Why are you being obtuse?
I feel after months of debate from both side the UK public voted on those issues!
The Esk
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What is your view on remaining part of the customs union?
Laughable Joey, there was no 'ransom' in place.
Greece wanted the drachma removed earlier and to be in the euro zone, therefore borrowing a HUGE bunch of money. Hardly the EU pushing for the Euro, the EU was perfectly happy with the plan originally imposed (same as it is in Bulgaria right now) for their 'native' currency to stabilise and get more expensive before they get to the Euro.
They literally removed currency in the thousands to get the euro earlier, therefore doing themselves in, and it came back to bite them, to absolutely no surprise to anyone, ever.
Clint Planet
Utter Cad.
Tuesday, 25 October 2016
Who is to blame for Brexit? Part One - who voted for it?
On 23 June 2016, the British people voted 51.9% to 48.1% to leave the European Union.
The turnout of 72.2% was much higher than in recent General Elections. However, 13 million registered voters did not vote and another 7 million eligible voters were not even registered. Millions of EU citizens living in the UK as well as 16 and 17 year olds were not allowed to vote, although there had been moves in some quarters to let them do so.
The vote for Brexit was a self-inflicted wound that seems likely to blight the UK for generations. The consequences of the vote are already being felt - a rising tide of intolerance and bigotry; the value of sterling has plummeted (according to one financial journalist to its lowest level since Henry VIII) pushing up the cost of imports, including food bills; Scotland is quite possibly heading for a second independence referendum, having very decisively voted to Remain.
As for the future, it is clouded with uncertainty and threat. It is clear that not only does the May government lack any plan to obtain the “best deal for Britain”, it does not even know what deal it wants.
“Vote Leave, Take Control” may become a catchphrase for arch-stupidity.
Who voted for Brexit? Immediately after the shock of the result of the referendum, it was being said that Brexit was due to the votes of working class Northerners. This narrative has been much repeated and is now widely accepted as true. It is not true.
Professor Danny Dorling has looked at the results of the only large scale survey carried out with voters on the day of the referendum by Lord Ashcroft. He found that the typical Leave voter is likely to have been middle class and living in the South.
Dorling points out that
Age of voters
In favour of Leave
How Remain vote was made up
Labour - 39%
Tory - 31%
Lib Dem - 12%
Greens - 7%
SNP - 6%
Other - 2%
UKIP - 1%
Plaid Cymru - 1%
How Leave vote was made up
Tory - 40%
UKIP - 25%
Labour - 21%
Lib Dem - 5%
SNP - 3%
Green - 2%
Other - 2%
Plaid Cymru - 1%
Almost 4 in 10 Remainers were Labour; 4 in 10 Leavers were Tory. Although there are comparatively few UKIP supporters almost all of them voted in the referendum so that they made up 25% of the Leave vote.
Reasons for voting Leave
The top three reasons for voting Leave were
In fact, a majority of voters thought that Remain would be better for the economy, international investment and the UK’s influence in the world.
Social attitudes
How did the people who thought the following a “force for ill” vote?
Multiculturalism - 81% Leave voters
- 19% Remain voters
Social liberalism - 80% Leave voters
- 20% Remain voters
Feminism - 74% Leave voters
26% Remain voters
The Green Movement - 78% Leave voters
- 22% Remain voters
Immigration - 80% Leave voters
- 20% Remain voters
The typical Leave voter was not a Northern working class Mirror reader. They were Southern and middle class and read the Telegraph or the Mail.
The typical Leave voter was also white and elderly. Many would still remember the days that Britain had an Empire. Perhaps the words of American Dean Acheson describe the feelings of many of these voters towards their country. Acheson said in 1962 that “Great Britain has lost an Empire and has not yet found a role”. Their vote was a defiant assertion of their country’s greatness. Sadly, they were delusional.
http://tomdlondon.blogspot.co.uk/
Who is to blame for Brexit? Part One - who voted for it?
On 23 June 2016, the British people voted 51.9% to 48.1% to leave the European Union.
The turnout of 72.2% was much higher than in recent General Elections. However, 13 million registered voters did not vote and another 7 million eligible voters were not even registered. Millions of EU citizens living in the UK as well as 16 and 17 year olds were not allowed to vote, although there had been moves in some quarters to let them do so.
The vote for Brexit was a self-inflicted wound that seems likely to blight the UK for generations. The consequences of the vote are already being felt - a rising tide of intolerance and bigotry; the value of sterling has plummeted (according to one financial journalist to its lowest level since Henry VIII) pushing up the cost of imports, including food bills; Scotland is quite possibly heading for a second independence referendum, having very decisively voted to Remain.
As for the future, it is clouded with uncertainty and threat. It is clear that not only does the May government lack any plan to obtain the “best deal for Britain”, it does not even know what deal it wants.
“Vote Leave, Take Control” may become a catchphrase for arch-stupidity.
Who voted for Brexit? Immediately after the shock of the result of the referendum, it was being said that Brexit was due to the votes of working class Northerners. This narrative has been much repeated and is now widely accepted as true. It is not true.
Professor Danny Dorling has looked at the results of the only large scale survey carried out with voters on the day of the referendum by Lord Ashcroft. He found that the typical Leave voter is likely to have been middle class and living in the South.
Dorling points out that
- two-thirds of all those who voted either Remain or Leave were middle class (social classes A, B or C1)
- 59% of those who voted Leave were middle class
- 52% of those who voted Leave lived in the South of England
- proportion of Leave voters in lowest two social classes, D and E, was just 24%
Age of voters
- the older the voter the more likely they were to vote Leave
- 73% of 18 to 24 year olds voted Remain
- 60% of those over 65 voted Leave
- White voters voted to Leave 53% to 47%
- Asian voters voted to Remain 67% to 33%
- Black voters voted to Remain 73% to 27%
In favour of Leave
- Tories - 42% Remain; 58% Leave
- UKIP - 4% Remain; 96% Leave
- Labour - 63% Remain; 37% Leave
- SNP - 64% Remain; 36% Leave
- Lib Dem - 70% Remain; 30% Leave
- Greens - 75% Remain; 25% Leave
How Remain vote was made up
Labour - 39%
Tory - 31%
Lib Dem - 12%
Greens - 7%
SNP - 6%
Other - 2%
UKIP - 1%
Plaid Cymru - 1%
How Leave vote was made up
Tory - 40%
UKIP - 25%
Labour - 21%
Lib Dem - 5%
SNP - 3%
Green - 2%
Other - 2%
Plaid Cymru - 1%
Almost 4 in 10 Remainers were Labour; 4 in 10 Leavers were Tory. Although there are comparatively few UKIP supporters almost all of them voted in the referendum so that they made up 25% of the Leave vote.
Reasons for voting Leave
The top three reasons for voting Leave were
- principle that decision about UK should be taken in UK 49%
- best chance to regain control over immigration 33%
- remaining would mean having no choice about how EU expanded membership in years ahead 13%
In fact, a majority of voters thought that Remain would be better for the economy, international investment and the UK’s influence in the world.
Social attitudes
How did the people who thought the following a “force for ill” vote?
Multiculturalism - 81% Leave voters
- 19% Remain voters
Social liberalism - 80% Leave voters
- 20% Remain voters
Feminism - 74% Leave voters
26% Remain voters
The Green Movement - 78% Leave voters
- 22% Remain voters
Immigration - 80% Leave voters
- 20% Remain voters
The typical Leave voter was not a Northern working class Mirror reader. They were Southern and middle class and read the Telegraph or the Mail.
The typical Leave voter was also white and elderly. Many would still remember the days that Britain had an Empire. Perhaps the words of American Dean Acheson describe the feelings of many of these voters towards their country. Acheson said in 1962 that “Great Britain has lost an Empire and has not yet found a role”. Their vote was a defiant assertion of their country’s greatness. Sadly, they were delusional.
http://tomdlondon.blogspot.co.uk/
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