Current Affairs EU In or Out

[dylsexicbleu]

As predicted. Political chaos is soon to hit much of Europe. I certainly won't predict the way any particular Parliamentary vote or referendum will go, but these are just the beginnings of Europe wide turmoil. Brought to us by a generation or two of politicians who would make John Major look skilled.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

As predicted. Political chaos is soon to hit much of Europe. I certainly won't predict the way any particular Parliamentary vote or referendum will go, but these are just the beginnings of Europe wide turmoil. Brought to us by a generation or two of politicians who would make John Major look skilled.

Not really, Germany and Poland are well on the road to ending freedom of movement and you only have to look at Politics in Poland (Tusk etc) now to know the EU will evolve, be it with much harder view on immigration. Even Spain this week is mulling a 100% property tax on non EU citizens which of course includes UK citizens...

 

[dylsexicbleu]

Not really, Germany and Poland are well on the road to ending freedom of movement and you only have to look at Politics in Poland (Tusk etc) now to know the EU will evolve, be it with much harder view on immigration. Even Spain this week is mulling a 100% property tax on non EU citizens which of course includes UK citizens...

If you think ending freedom of movement fixes Europe's ills then fine. I think the problems go much deeper(in both the EU & UK). When I said 'chaos' I really meant mainstream political parties are about to feel a chill wind throughout Europe, populist or extreme parties to surge. This could, I think, be done in in a non chaotic manner but, more likely, it will get very messy.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Not really, Germany and Poland are well on the road to ending freedom of movement and you only have to look at Politics in Poland (Tusk etc) now to know the EU will evolve, be it with much harder view on immigration. Even Spain this week is mulling a 100% property tax on non EU citizens which of course includes UK citizens...

Removing one of the founding principles of the EU is pretty huge (and enormously sad).

 

[Bruce Wayne]

If you think ending freedom of movement fixes Europe's ills then fine. I think the problems go much deeper(in both the EU & UK). When I said 'chaos' I really meant mainstream political parties are about to feel a chill wind throughout Europe, populist or extreme parties to surge. This could, I think, be done in in a non chaotic manner but, more likely, it will get very messy.

I do wish you'd [Poor language removed] off you irritant.

 

[Yarrgh]

I do wish you'd [Poor language removed] off you irritant.

Whilst I agree with your sentiment and know he's posting with intent to get a rise out of most people on here, there's a very worrying development throughout Europe that's reaching a critical point.

Hopefully economic and societal conditions improve and tensions settle down, but it is important to not bury our heads in the sand and actually your irritating chum gives a clear understanding of who and why a big chunk of society is falling under the nationalist sales pitch.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Whilst I agree with your sentiment and know he's posting with intent to get a rise out of most people on here, there's a very worrying development throughout Europe that's reaching a critical point.

Hopefully economic and societal conditions improve and tensions settle down, but it is important to not bury our heads in the sand and actually your irritating chum gives a clear understanding of who and why a big chunk of society is falling under the nationalist sales pitch.

It's reached the current point because the populists he so loves have spread lies and misinformation to scapegoat a section of society for whatever ills they think are relevant in their countries. I quite agree that it seems universal that mainstream parties have been unable to counter this narrative with the facts and evidence that exist, but that's on them. It's not acceptable for us to say "ok, well sod the facts and evidence then, the populists win, we'll just have to go along with their poisonous narrative instead", yet that's what is happening because the mainstream politicians are more interested in their own careers. Shame on them.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Removing one of the founding principles of the EU is pretty huge (and enormously sad).

It is for those of us outside the EU...

If you think ending freedom of movement fixes Europe's ills then fine. I think the problems go much deeper(in both the EU & UK). When I said 'chaos' I really meant mainstream political parties are about to feel a chill wind throughout Europe, populist or extreme parties to surge. This could, I think, be done in in a non chaotic manner but, more likely, it will get very messy.

Countries and founding members of EU are adapting be it isolationist echo. Don't see it as political issue of any party per say, main thrust of the issues are economic, mainly working more just for less, and housing eating more and more of that less wage. None of the right seem to have answers either and seem a protest. Our right in Reform are Libertarian they want what we have now just on steroids.

We will just see a splintering of party ideology already happened with Tories and Reform, could well happen to Labour, maybe the LibDems and Greens. Be issue for those antiquated countries that have first past the post.

As for UK and Reform it essentially relying on the Younger electorate to actually get off their phones and vote. Like Greens before and Corbyn before them adored on Tiktok and they say lots of nice things about antiestablishment but on the day don't vote...

 

[Yarrgh]

It's reached the current point because the populists he so loves have spread lies and misinformation to scapegoat a section of society for whatever ills they think are relevant in their countries. I quite agree that it seems universal that mainstream parties have been unable to counter this narrative with the facts and evidence that exist, but that's on them. It's not acceptable for us to say "ok, well sod the facts and evidence then, the populists win, we'll just have to go along with their poisonous narrative instead", yet that's what is happening because the mainstream politicians are more interested in their own careers. Shame on them.

Absolutely agree with you on all you write. But we have huge swathes of people who are disenfranchised from mainstream parties and fall for snake oil being pushed by the populists- how to rectify that? I don't know but they need to be re-engaged somehow.

 

[dylsexicbleu]

It is for those of us outside the EU...



Countries and founding members of EU are adapting be it isolationist echo. Don't see it as political issue of any party per say, main thrust of the issues are economic, mainly working more just for less, and housing eating more and more of that less wage. None of the right seem to have answers either and seem a protest. Our right in Reform are Libertarian they want what we have now just on steroids.

We will just see a splintering of party ideology already happened with Tories and Reform, could well happen to Labour, maybe the LibDems and Greens. Be issue for those antiquated countries that have first past the post.

As for UK and Reform it essentially relying on the Younger electorate to actually get off their phones and vote. Like Greens before and Corbyn before them adored on Tiktok and they say lots of nice things about antiestablishment but on the day don't vote...

Thanks for the reply.

European states will soon(or already are) running out of cheap money. Government structural deficits, already large, will likely increase from here on out. It's then up to the government to increase taxes or massively cut spending(quite likely both). This will lead to all sorts of voter discontent. Racial tensions are also increasing through much of Europe. It's a wildfire just waiting for a spark.

The most hopeful way out of this is increased productivity & GDP through an AI boom. Nothing else, I think, stops this sh**show.

If you want to see the way the UK is headed just look to the continent. Unless the Tories somehow get themselves together we are about to get our very own AfD or FN as the main opposition. Some may take comfort that neither of these two parties hold any significant govt power. Let's see if that is still the case in, say, 5 years time.

 

[Rita_Poon]

It's reached the current point because the populists he so loves have spread lies and misinformation to scapegoat a section of society for whatever ills they think are relevant in their countries. I quite agree that it seems universal that mainstream parties have been unable to counter this narrative with the facts and evidence that exist, but that's on them. It's not acceptable for us to say "ok, well sod the facts and evidence then, the populists win, we'll just have to go along with their poisonous narrative instead", yet that's what is happening because the mainstream politicians are more interested in their own careers. Shame on them.

Small world.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Thanks for the reply.

European states will soon(or already are) running out of cheap money. Government structural deficits, already large, will likely increase from here on out. It's then up to the government to increase taxes or massively cut spending(quite likely both). This will lead to all sorts of voter discontent. Racial tensions are also increasing through much of Europe. It's a wildfire just waiting for a spark.

The most hopeful way out of this is increased productivity & GDP through an AI boom. Nothing else, I think, stops this sh**show.

If you want to see the way the UK is headed just look to the continent. Unless the Tories somehow get themselves together we are about to get our very own AfD or FN as the main opposition. Some may take comfort that neither of these two parties hold any significant govt power. Let's see if that is still the case in, say, 5 years time.

As long mortgage or equivalent rent remains 10 15 20 x average wages, factor a loved ones many hour even days wait in corridors ambulances for admission to hospital etc. No AI and increased productivity with all foreigners sent home going stop the wild fire...

 

[Jebus_lives]

Happy 5th anniversary everyone.

What a glorious 5 years it's been.

We should start to see those Brexit dividends rolling in soon shouldn't we?

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Happy 5th anniversary everyone.

What a glorious 5 years it's been.

We should start to see those Brexit dividends rolling in soon shouldn't we?

What is most exciting, and I believe that most Brexiteers will agree, is how we are now shifting immigration from annoying European types to more diverse global communities. I'm sure that it exactly what we all wanted.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/ace/standard/976/cpsprodpb/5579/live/8ea3acd0-df25-11ef-a819-277e390a7a08.png.webp

 

[Thomasc]

Millionaire businessman and entrepreneur Mr Sugar gives his views.

But obviously @dylsexicbleu knows best