Current Affairs EU In or Out

[JammyP]

 

[Jebus_lives]

Been have a few chats with people in my family and a few mates that voted out.
Most think it's been handled terribly and wouldn't have voted for the current situation.
Have to hold your hands up sometimes and just say it like it is.

Not at all accusatory in tone this.

I'm just wondering what you were expecting? And did you not expect this from the conversations pre/post vote?

 

[dublinbluenose]

 

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Very important case that, quite relieved at the outcome.

 

[dublinbluenose]

Very important case that, quite relieved at the outcome.

Absolutely.

 

[edge]

Not at all accusatory in tone this.

I'm just wondering what you were expecting? And did you not expect this from the conversations pre/post vote?

Not the total mess this lot are making of it.
Expected some bumps at the start but this lot say one thing then bottle out and do either thee opposite or some half way out.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Not the total mess this lot are making of it.
Expected some bumps at the start but this lot say one thing then bottle out and do either thee opposite or some half way out.

But my point was: what exactly did you want/expect Brexit to achieve and what about it is not being achieved?

It's doing exactly what was negotiated..

 

[edge]

But my point was: what exactly did you want/expect Brexit to achieve and what about it is not being achieved?

It's doing exactly what was negotiated..

I was in favour of a clean break .
A country totally free of the EU.
It's laws ect.
Not that I thought we would ever do that so expected a compromise, not a shambles.
Saying that if I had at any piont thought Johnson was to be leading it , I would have as state before nor have voted to leave because he is an evil tit in my opinion.
Still not a fan of the EU .
but looking at it sensibly for the majority in the country its turned out to be a waste of time leaving .
The government as with everything else is not fit to do anything other than get cheap headlines ,
the more they say they got brexit done the more it winds me up
I actually hate this government,
I know its not sensible or rashional put I can't help it.
Think I have convinced myself if they want anything I automatically go the other way.

 

[Xizor]

I was in favour of a clean break .
A country totally free of the EU.
It's laws ect.

But what did you want that to achieve? What was all of it supposed to have been for?

Because this is all playing out just like all the grown ups in the room predicted (that whole 'project fear' thing). Once May shut down any sensible path to make a workable Brexit, we all knew that hardships were incoming. We knew that distancing ourselves from a close, massive trading bloc would wreck livelihoods. Throwing up barriers across a previously open trading border would cost people in real terms. And we all knew that there wasn't a way forward with regards to Northern Ireland that could satisfy all interested parties.

We even knew we'd have long passport queues at airports.

 

[edge]

But what did you want that to achieve? What was all of it supposed to have been for?

Because this is all playing out just like all the grown ups in the room predicted (that whole 'project fear' thing). Once May shut down any sensible path to make a workable Brexit, we all knew that hardships were incoming. We knew that distancing ourselves from a close, massive trading bloc would wreck livelihoods. Throwing up barriers across a previously open trading border would cost people in real terms. And we all knew that there wasn't a way forward with regards to Northern Ireland that could satisfy all interested parties.

We even knew we'd have long passport queues at airports.

I posted what I wanted out of it for years on this thread.
Left it because it was not going anywhere.
Pointless doing it all again .
Basically I wanted the UK to be the sole master of its own laws and not in a union which I don't think to be of benefit to the working class here or in the EU.
By the way there wasn't any passport queues at alicante when I went there a few weeks a go, unless you think 4 or 5 people in front of you a queue is something of a problem?
Search the vaults I posted lots of reasons at the time.

 

[Jebus_lives]

I posted what I wanted out of it for years on this thread.
Left it because it was not going anywhere.
Pointless doing it all again .
Basically I wanted the UK to be the sole master of its own laws and not in a union which I don't think to be of benefit to the working class here or in the EU.
By the way there wasn't any passport queues at alicante when I went there a few weeks a go, unless you think 4 or 5 people in front of you a queue is something of a problem?
Search the vaults I posted lots of reasons at the time.

I take the point about making our own laws, but practically every trade deal we make is about sacrificing some part of our Sovereignty.

I assume for the purpose of debate, we are taking about Sovereignty in the sense of a nations ability to enter into agreements.

The whole discussion about Brexit was framed as the UK cannot and should not enter into and be bound by any international agreements.

But that completely misunderstands the meaning of Sovereignty.

The ability to accept obligations is the point of sovereignty: that a nation state can enter into a treaty means that it is a sovereign state.

To address the second part, the UK had the best of all possible EU deals, we were stronger economically in the EU. In theory a stronger economy means greater standards of living and working class get oblique benefits - within the EU this was seen through ESF money. With a shrinking economy and an ability 'to cut red tape' (get rid of pesky HR legislation, workers rights, food standards, H&S standards) how will that possibly benefit workers?

 

[Xizor]

I posted what I wanted out of it for years on this thread.
Left it because it was not going anywhere.
Pointless doing it all again .
Basically I wanted the UK to be the sole master of its own laws and not in a union which I don't think to be of benefit to the working class here or in the EU.
By the way there wasn't any passport queues at alicante when I went there a few weeks a go, unless you think 4 or 5 people in front of you a queue is something of a problem?
Search the vaults I posted lots of reasons at the time.

Ah right, just another one who can't even sum up a fantasy benefit of Brexit, let alone something remotely positive that might actually happen. Sovrintee, innit? Wasn't the popular leave cry that no price was too great? How can you be complaining now, this is what you wanted!

And your single anecdotal example of good timing means nothing and doesn't counter the fact that non-EU passport lines are less convenient and prone to more delays.

 

[Haydn]

Not the total mess this lot are making of it.
Expected some bumps at the start but this lot say one thing then bottle out and do either thee opposite or some half way out.

This is the thing I don’t understand. I get that some people believed that leaving the EU was a good thing. If they genuinely understood the many complexities and nuanced arguments that this involved, fair play to them.

If they did understand what was involved, wtf would you trust a bunch of half-witted intellectual pygmies to negotiate on your behalf ?

It’s like deciding to get divorced and insisting you are represented in court by the village idiot.

 

[edge]

Ah right, just another one who can't even sum up a fantasy benefit of Brexit, let alone something remotely positive that might actually happen. Sovrintee, innit? Wasn't the popular leave cry that no price was too great? How can you be complaining now, this is what you wanted!

And your single anecdotal example of good timing means nothing and doesn't counter the fact that non-EU passport lines are less convenient and prone to more delays.

I will give you one there are more jobs available and at the lower paid are seeing the wages rise, and choice of jobs, because there isn't a market now of cheap labour for big business to tap.into.
Which I said for before the vote, look at farming jobs ect.,all getting miles higher wages
I would sooner take what I have seen with my own experience as proof, than an antidote from a paper story , If you have personally seen it fair enough .
For the record I have been away quite a few times since the vote still hadn't seen the problem your talking about. Not taken just the one instance.
Plenty of other problems at airports but not that one, and if you took your blinkers of you would know the airports throughout Europe are all having problems not just the UK.
Massive queue 's at Greek airports, two Spanish airline unions going on strike, Amsterdam being like a cattle market ect
I have said if you and others are interested in my views on why I wanted to leave.,
They are in this thread, I hadn't delete anything.
I am not spending my time relating what I have said over the years in a never ending loop in this thread just to please you or anybody else.
If your late to the thread don't expect me to give you a commentary of two or three years or so worth of posting.
I can state my views on any subject at the time of posting unlike some I am not so entrenched in my views, I can and will change my mind as time and situations dictate
I don't need to justify it to you or any other condescending poster every few posts.

 

[edge]

This is the thing I don’t understand. I get that some people believed that leaving the EU was a good thing. If they genuinely understood the many complexities and nuanced arguments that this involved, fair play to them.

If they did understand what was involved, wtf would you trust a bunch of half-witted intellectual pygmies to negotiate on your behalf ?

It’s like deciding to get divorced and insisting you are represented in court by the village idiot.

I have long stated if I known Johnson was in power and the choice, with hindsight if was him or out I would have been in the stay camp.
I can't do anything about it now, can't take my vote back.
Like getting married, everybody tells you not to, but it seems a good idea at the time, you do it for the right reasons, but you can live to regret it in the long run.