Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Barnfred 55]

You've misunderstood my point: how is the situation now better for those people?

Pre Brexit, free movement within the EU meant that work permits offered to non EU citizens were severely limited (think it was something like 60k per year from memory). Now, non EU citizens have the same opportunity as EU citizens.

The new immigration laws need sorting out first but that's another matter.

 

[orchard]

You've misunderstood my point: how is the situation now better for those people?

They don't have the hassle of having rights whilst working here.

 

[ste d' indica]

Pre Brexit, free movement within the EU meant that work permits offered to non EU citizens were severely limited (think it was something like 60k per year from memory). Now, non EU citizens have the same opportunity as EU citizens.

The new immigration laws need sorting out first but that's another matter.

OK, I get your argument, I don't agree its that simple, but I get it. What I will say is that for the first time that I've seen in this thread, someone has potentially identified a slim benefit of Brexit, even if its not for the benefit of the people who voted for the 'kin thing.

I'd love to have seen that on the side of a bus: "Vote 'Leave' so more people from all over the world can come here! Just less Europeans!"

Remain would've won by a 'kin landslide.

 

[Barnfred 55]

OK, I get your argument, I don't agree its that simple, but I get it. What I will say is that for the first time that I've seen in this thread, someone has potentially identified a slim benefit of Brexit, even if its not for the benefit of the people who voted for the 'kin thing.

I'd love to have seen that on the side of a bus: "Vote 'Leave' so more people from all over the world can come here! Just less Europeans!"

Remain would've won by a 'kin landslide.

There are many benefits of Brexit for those who voted to leave and they have been expressed in these pages countless times over the last 5 years. People who voted remain don't see them as benefits so just dismiss them. To the people who voted leave they are valid benefits.

I don't come in here very often because it always ends up in pointless discussions like this one. Anyway I'm offski. Let's have another conversation another time, hopefully on something we agree on.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

OK, I get your argument, I don't agree its that simple, but I get it. What I will say is that for the first time that I've seen in this thread, someone has potentially identified a slim benefit of Brexit, even if its not for the benefit of the people who voted for the 'kin thing.

I'd love to have seen that on the side of a bus: "Vote 'Leave' so more people from all over the world can come here! Just less Europeans!"

Remain would've won by a 'kin landslide.

Lets be honest, at no point did the Leave campaign say that immigration would even stay at the same levels, much less increase it. It was very much a "we're going to cut migration considerably" angle, and given Farage's "Breaking Point" poster wasn't exactly full of white people, it's a massive stretch to think that it was about giving non-EU migrants a "fair chance".

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Here's a real world impact, an email UK companies are now receiving showing what is going to change from the 1st July for people/businesses exporting to the EU. This should have happened in January however was kicked down the road....

Whereas when we were an EU member, there were exceptions to customs/import charges depending on the value of the item, these are now completely removed so all items will incur both charges. As a business, the question will be to soak up the new charges, so as to keep products at the same price and encourage trade, or do they pass those charges on to the customer either at point of sale or when they receive the item, thus risking losing trade through no fault of their own.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Here's a real world impact, an email UK companies are now receiving showing what is going to change from the 1st July for people/businesses exporting to the EU. This should have happened in January however was kicked down the road....

Whereas when we were an EU member, there were exceptions to customs/import charges depending on the value of the item, these are now completely removed so all items will incur both charges. As a business, the question will be to soak up the new charges, so as to keep products at the same price and encourage trade, or do they pass those charges on to the customer either at point of sale or when they receive the item, thus risking losing trade through no fault of their own.

View attachment 128625

I think you'll find that's just giving companies from the rest of the world a fairer chance

 

[ste d' indica]

Lets be honest, at no point did the Leave campaign say that immigration would even stay at the same levels, much less increase it. It was very much a "we're going to cut migration considerably" angle, and given Farage's "Breaking Point" poster wasn't exactly full of white people, it's a massive stretch to think that it was about giving non-EU migrants a "fair chance".

I'm just enjoying seeing these skilled contortionists at work.

 

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

There are many benefits of Brexit for those who voted to leave and they have been expressed in these pages countless times over the last 5 years. People who voted remain don't see them as benefits so just dismiss them. To the people who voted leave they are valid benefits.

I don't come in here very often because it always ends up in pointless discussions like this one. Anyway I'm offski. Let's have another conversation another time, hopefully on something we agree on.

This is not true. Not one tangible benefit has been expressed in these pages at all. And that's including the thread Benefits of Brexit.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Brexit: UK travellers to France and Spain may need proof of accommodation

People in France hosting non-EU nationals need to submit £26 form to their town hall as part of post-Brexit changes

www.theguardian.com

So if you own a holiday home in Spain etc. You can no longer just let your family and friends use it use it. You also have to show proof of funding for your trip and return ticket. When we used to go and visit stepfather inlaw we only booked single tickets. Thank you brexit.

This is not true. Not one tangible benefit has been expressed in these pages at all. And that's including the thread Benefits of Brexit.

Leavers such as fishermen Farmers small SMEs second home owners all knew what they were voting for.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Brexit: UK travellers to France and Spain may need proof of accommodation

People in France hosting non-EU nationals need to submit £26 form to their town hall as part of post-Brexit changes

www.theguardian.com

So if you own a holiday home in Spain etc. You can no longer just let your family and friends use it use it. You also have to show proof of funding for your trip and return ticket. When we used to go and visit stepfather inlaw we only booked single tickets. Thank you brexit.


Leavers such as fishermen Farmers small SMEs second home owners all knew what they were voting for.

Think the article states these plans may come in. The British tourist market in Spain and France is too important to these countries to jeopardise too much.
Dunno about the proof of return flight though

 

[peteblue]

This is not true. Not one tangible benefit has been expressed in these pages at all. And that's including the thread Benefits of Brexit.

Throughout this thread, both pro’s and con’s have been discussed at some length, although people will never agree.

For me...

We have Politicians directly accountable to the electorate and there will be no more hiding behind the EU, it’s laws or Brussels.
We now are free to make our own laws and regulations, both proposed and approved by elected MP’s.
We now control our own borders and decide who comes in.
We control our own Trade Policies and agreements and do so at a much faster pace.
We will join the ever growing CPTPP trading bloc.
We still trade with the ever shrinking EU btw.
We have taken back control of the UK’s fishing and EEZ.
We will control our own levels of targeted State Aid.
We no longer pay in the Billions into the EU pot.
We are creating new economic models and opportunities for ourselves, including Freeport’s.
We will not be part of the new EU army and will pursue our own International relations.
We are free to do what we wish, when we wish, for our benefit, and not having to agree with 27 other countries who all have a veto.
We are open for business and not hiding behind a protectionist wall.
We didn’t fall off a cliff edge, we went our own way with the vaccines and we will regenerate our economy faster.

As has been said, you may not see any of the above as a benefit, but those who voted Leave will recognise them......

 

[Joey66]

Steroids and AB's mainly I think, plus some are reared in food lot type monstrosities, and maybe diseases, especially when wheeled out to the Americas, things like f&m.

We're talking a mix of both high intensity pollution causing foodlots(where the stat's that meat is environmentally bad come from), and extensive ranging in the vast (relatively cheap) areas they have compared to here. The extensive systems save on a lot of labour and inputs, eg use of a helicopter to cover the area.

Edit:
We can compete with the first, but certainly shouldn't imo, and we'd need to nuke Pete's pub and house for the second.

Small mixed farms are the future imo.

Scottish best has different beef hormones........totally different agricultural policies to the rest of the UK......it may be in line with EU policies, but I did read it differs ......

 

[orchard]

Scottish best has different beef hormones........totally different agricultural policies to the rest of the UK......it may be in line with EU policies, but I did read it differs ......

Hormones are blanket banned from EU I believe mate (btw, didn't mean to write 'steroids', pls read hormones).
Scotland and Wales (prob's NI too), could diverge from England's application of EU rules, but not that much (total ban on GMO's, neonic's, etc.. )

Westminster's applications always favoured their large lobbyists, unlike France and other EU countries.

 

[Joey66]

Hormones are blanket banned from EU I believe mate (btw, didn't mean to write 'steroids', pls read hormones).
Scotland and Wales (prob's NI too), could diverge from England's application of EU rules, but not that much (total ban on GMO's, neonic's, etc.. )

Westminster's applications always favoured their large lobbyists, unlike France and other EU countries.

When I did my Nebbs supervision course in the 1980's - one subject was Industrial relations taken by an ex shop steward British rail student come lecturer - he was brilliant a good leftie with a fountain of knowledge on the working classes etc ...
Then & maybe now he asked who as a group in the parliament had the biggest backing - he asked the class of twelve - no one knew the answer ......

Answer the landowners = the gentleman farmers MPs or Lords ..... so imo no deal will be allowed to shaft the farming community they are already promising to replace the EU grant with wild life projects on their farmland - nothing wrong with that by the way far better than the EU subsidy for over producing crops etc ...

So this smoke & mirrors Australian Beef thing is just an outcry from the farming community to keep their interest protected not the poor lease owners of the Landlord landowners who cream the profits off by the way ....... We had commonwealth trade before the EU - the consumer can choose what they think is the best meat or vegetables to eat a hell of people are moving over to organic vegetables - any vegeterrarins out ther/
Be carefull as vegetables grown on a mass scale of fertilisers, plus insecticides especially the one passed by the EU which was called a systemic insecticide I used in the late 1970's systemic pellets planted with the crops which imo is decimating the Bee population as its in the plants system to clear away most common pest ...

The same pellet insecticide I had to administer dressed in a space suit in the late 1970’s absolutely lethal to any life it is take up into the plant system to poison any pest in the future is stays in the plant system until harvest ......

Aldicarb - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It is loosely banned by some EU countries ......but some of our vegetables is imported from = not ......

The Bee & insect world has had a bashing from such pesticides .....