Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Bruce Wayne]

UK ordered three months earlier, actually had similar issues.

Output of Oxford-AstraZeneca doses held up

Production setback as first mass vaccination campaign gets under way

www.ft.com

Pfizer the same. We took a 50%-60% hit on initial delivery supplies.

The sole difference is we weren't as impacted because they had more time to iron them out, because we ordered earlier. It really is as simple as that. 80% of the UK vaccines are made in the UK, the European facilities went online later due to it being a later order. Expecting them to mass produce a product which isn't proven to be commercially viable just to meet an advance order that would be null and void if it doesn't work is, obviously, unreasonable. And again:



This could very easily affect the UK in a few months. If those factories have a reduced yield in the UK, then we'll get less doses. The difference, of course, is that as time goes on more options become available and supply increases to reach demand, which hasn't happened yet. The EU were too slow due to bureaucracy and process, and - to be blunt - simply unlucky.

By your definition, if AZ failed in their "best efforts" by having only a limited number of facilities and having issues, then Pfizer haven't made best efforts either - nobody has. You conveniently skirt around that fact.

Your position is reactionary to failure, not one of logic. It's understandable, but while AZ have screwed up, it's an understandable screw up. In a 'normal' time, it'd be brushed over, nobody would care, there'd be an understanding of issues with live products and the order would be met eventually. We aren't living in a 'normal' time, so everything is magnified.

So you think, by your own words, that production that has already failed when supplying the UK and is by AZ's admission prone to vagaries in output, should be concentrated in one facility and that be considered "best effort"?

 

[Tubey]

So you think, by your own words, that production that has already failed when supplying the UK and is by AZ's admission prone to vagaries in output, should be concentrated in one facility and that be considered "best effort"?

Yes, I think it's reasonable at this stage for that to be the case. They are scaling up gradually, as are Pfizer who don't have a second plant online until mid-February.

That's the problem you have here - if AZ are negligent and not doing their best efforts, then Pfizer aren't either, because you can directly compare the two and they're both doing similar things.

They're a business - they don't let supply outstrip demand. They couldn't have stockpiled billions upon billions of doses of something that could have been worthless. The French vaccine recently went down the pan, it's actually a minor miracle we have so many efficacious vaccines arriving at once - the expectation in April last year was perhaps one, around 50% effective.

This will almost certainly happen again over the next few months. I can't see how it can be completely avoided given the timescale and nature of the product.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yes, I think it's reasonable at this stage for that to be the case. They are scaling up gradually, as are Pfizer who don't have a second plant online until mid-February.

That's the problem you have here - if AZ are negligent and not doing their best efforts, then Pfizer aren't either, because you can directly compare the two and they're both doing similar things.

They're a business - they don't let supply outstrip demand. They couldn't have stockpiled billions upon billions of doses of something that could have been worthless. The French vaccine recently went down the pan, it's actually a minor miracle we have so many efficacious vaccines arriving at once - the expectation in April last year was perhaps one, around 50% effective.

This will almost certainly happen again over the next few months. I can't see how it can be completely avoided given the timescale and nature of the product.

If Pfizer undershoot their order by 60% then yes, they have failed too. This is precisely the job of the big pharma companies. That's why they're in this, because they're supposed to have the scale and the resources to bring the science from the Oxford and BioNTech teams to market. And this isn't about having billions of doses stockpiled but having sufficient capacity in their system to cope with what are almost certain hiccups in production. Ordinarily society might be perfectly okay with speedbumps in vaccine production, but now is not an ordinary time. Heaven knows, governments were willing to chuck money at them to ensure production went smoothly, and it hasn't. That rests with them.

 

[Tubey]

If Pfizer undershoot their order by 60% then yes, they have failed too. This is precisely the job of the big pharma companies. That's why they're in this, because they're supposed to have the scale and the resources to bring the science from the Oxford and BioNTech teams to market. And this isn't about having billions of doses stockpiled but having sufficient capacity in their system to cope with what are almost certain hiccups in production. Ordinarily society might be perfectly okay with speedbumps in vaccine production, but now is not an ordinary time. Heaven knows, governments were willing to chuck money at them to ensure production went smoothly, and it hasn't. That rests with them.

They did to the UK in December.

 

[PaulPowersTash]

The vaccine roll has has been left to state, Tory Government have not let their normal cronies into in on the vaccine roll out, as they did with PPE Track and Trace.

Don't think they should be congratulated for letting the NHS Armed Forces and Councils actually do what they are supposed to do, we all pay them/me to do.

How the government have precured these vaccines is separate.

But relatively speaking the vaccine roll out has been successful?

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

But relatively speaking the vaccine roll out has been successful?

For the laymen I can appreciate the concept.

Allowing the NHS Armed forces and Councils to do their jobs should be standard practice, the great British state when allowed to operate unimpeded by Government and its preferred ideologies can achieve much.

The adequate procurement and subsequent administration of of vaccines is yet to be fully determined... It's of note the UK is against recommended dosing of some of the vaccines being administered.

It's of note than border controls are now gathering pace, having half vaccinated people wondering around for weeks longer than they should is very dangerous, as its well noted in science as a key component to vaccine resistant viruses.

 

[PaulPowersTash]

For the laymen I can appreciate the concept.

Allowing the NHS Armed forces and Councils to do their jobs should be standard practice, the great British state when allowed to operate unimpeded by Government and its preferred ideologies can achieve much.

The adequate procurement and subsequent administration of of vaccines is yet to be fully determined... It's of note the UK is against recommended dosing of some of the vaccines being administered.

It's of note than border controls are now gathering pace, having half vaccinated people wondering around for weeks longer than they should is very dangerous, and is well noted in science as a key component to vaccine resistant viruses.

But that aside the vaccine roll out has been relatively successful - no?

 

[ToffeeTim]

But that aside the vaccine roll out has been relatively successful - no?

The short answer is yes.

Of course it could be better, there's ways ways to improve things. But comparatively speaking we are doing pretty well. Its not even a debate really, its just a fact.

Whether we can keep it up, time will tell.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

But that aside the vaccine roll out has been relatively successful - no?

In number only, but this Virus does not respect big number or sound bites for that matter. Again I reiterate,

"The adequate procurement and subsequent administration of of vaccines is yet to be fully determined... It's of note the UK is against recommended dosing of some of the vaccines being administered.

It's of note than border controls are now gathering pace, having half vaccinated people wondering around for weeks longer than they should is very dangerous, and is well noted in science as a key component to vaccine resistant viruses."

There is real concern in virology what we are doing with some of the vaccines could lead to a vaccine resistant virus, if that is something to champion, be my guest. Not for me.

 

[PaulPowersTash]

In number only, but this Virus does not respect big number or sound bites for that matter. Again I reiterate,

"The adequate procurement and subsequent administration of of vaccines is yet to be fully determined... It's of note the UK is against recommended dosing of some of the vaccines being administered.

It's of note than border controls are now gathering pace, having half vaccinated people wondering around for weeks longer than they should is very dangerous, and is well noted in science as a key component to vaccine resistant viruses."

There is real concern in virology what we are doing with some of the vaccines could lead to a vaccine resistant virus, if that is something to champion, be my guest. Not for me.

I give up.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

I give up.

Don't present me with fools gold. A success is this Virus eradicated from causing serious harm.

 

[Deleted member 48881]

'Half-pregnant is not a concept': UK should decide who its allies are, says Macron

‘History and geography don’t change – I don’t think British destiny is different to ours,’ says French president

www.theguardian.com

 

[Jebus_lives]

Is that being touted?

If it's not it probably should be

 

[peteblue]

'Half-pregnant is not a concept': UK should decide who its allies are, says Macron

‘History and geography don’t change – I don’t think British destiny is different to ours,’ says French president

www.theguardian.com

So Macron makes a big play about friendships then.....

”Macron said Europe will not block or ban exports of coronavirus vaccines but that they should be “controlled”, accusing AstraZeneca of a lack of transparency after the British-Swedish pharmaceutical company said it could not fulfil the whole of its contract with the EU.

He also said the AstraZeneca vaccine, given approval by the EU regulator on Friday for use on all adults, appeared to be “quasi-ineffective” on people older than 65, though he acknowledged he had no figures or official information.

 

[mill]

The Government allowed the state to do it's job in roll out, rather than seek to make profit for its preferred cronies, I won't be doffing my cap for the minimum. I strive for much better.

* Using the current Man Utd manager is ironic, he is cronyism personified, just ask Cardiff fans!

I was clearly being ironic.

Look I despise tory government as much as the next man, I think I’ve been clear on that. I’m also a remainer. Something else I’ve been clear on. I find it funny that people are slagging off the EU because we have made a list with the US, Australia, Singapore, South Korea, Canada and Japan. I’ll also remember it when people have got a problem with us sending foreign aid elsewhere. The EU have an issue with vaccine supply whether through incompetence or something else. But they are behaving exactly how the U.K. would in exactly the same boat. Maximising their supply.

but your logic regarding vaccine procurement and rollout is like next door when people say ancelotti made all the good signings and brands made all the bad ones.