Current Affairs EU In or Out

[PaulPowersTash]

Erm... no.

The UK has been one of the worst countries in the world at responding to this pandemic, because of a piss-poor government. It'd take a dyed-in-the-wool idiot Tory to really deny otherwise; the response has been a joke, right up there alongside Bolsonaro in Brazil and Trump.

However... they've nailed the vaccine acquisition and rollout. Absolutely, provably nailed it.

It's not a diversion to just acknowledge when things are done right. It seems impossible for people to just move from their entrenched positions on any given subject - you can honestly be a Tory and say they screwed up the pandemic response. You can be pro-EU and say the Tories got the vaccines right. It's not betraying your core beliefs to just acknowledge the obvious.

Top post. Nail on head.

 

[tsubaki]

I can't as its the EU who have made this about something beyond a contract dispute with a private company. The EU had every right to be annoyed at AZ; but they made it much more than that when they spat their dummy out and threatened the Pfizer supply and demanded UK doses.

The EU have been petulant. It really is a case of "it is what it is".

This is what I think @davek was trying to say with the idiocy of vaccine nationalism though - the EU interfere with our vaccines (made in the EU) and it’s an outrage that is much worse than us interfering in theirs (made in the UK).

Meanwhile people aren’t angry at the firm responsible for all this.

As an aside, does anyone know if we’ve actually banned vaccine exports? I didn’t think we had, but seeing the reports around other medicines I am not so sure.

 

[Tubey]

This is what I think @davek was trying to say with the idiocy of vaccine nationalism though - the EU interfere with our vaccines (made in the EU) and it’s an outrage that is much worse than us interfering in theirs (made in the UK).

Meanwhile people aren’t angry at the firm responsible for all this.

As an aside, does anyone know if we’ve actually banned vaccine exports? I didn’t think we had, but seeing the reports around other medicines I am not so sure.

That hasn't happened.

 

[tsubaki]

That hasn't happened.

yes it has; the AZ CEO said HMGs contract said that no U.K. production could go abroad until the initial UK contract was filled.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

This is what I think @davek was trying to say with the idiocy of vaccine nationalism though - the EU interfere with our vaccines (made in the EU) and it’s an outrage that is much worse than us interfering in theirs (made in the UK).

Meanwhile people aren’t angry at the firm responsible for all this.

As an aside, does anyone know if we’ve actually banned vaccine exports? I didn’t think we had, but seeing the reports around other medicines I am not so sure.

I suppose this is the thing. The facility in Wrexham seems to be working via a direct agreement with the UK government, so presumably that's off the table. The Oxford and Keele facilities seem to be dealing directly with AZ, so presumably would be very much on the table as per the agreement published today? I have no idea which stage of the process these facilities operate at or whether they could step in for the faltering facility in Belgium.

 

[peteblue]

This is what I think @davek was trying to say with the idiocy of vaccine nationalism though - the EU interfere with our vaccines (made in the EU) and it’s an outrage that is much worse than us interfering in theirs (made in the UK).

Meanwhile people aren’t angry at the firm responsible for all this.

As an aside, does anyone know if we’ve actually banned vaccine exports? I didn’t think we had, but seeing the reports around other medicines I am not so sure.

You can be as angry as you like with AZ but it will make no difference. Everybody needs vaccine, they make it. You can sue them and get money, but you won’t get vaccine. You can slag them off in the press for your own political failures, but you still won’t get vaccine. It’s time the EU addressed the real issue, helping AZ in getting the plants making the vaccine up to speed, instead of crying and bullying. Anyone, other than die hard Remainers or those employed by the EU know they’ve cocked up and are continuing to dig a big hole for themselves....

 

[Tubey]

yes it has; the AZ CEO said HMGs contract said that no U.K. production could go abroad until the initial UK contract was filled.

No, we have a set supply in contract, so it's our vaccine. It's not taking away from the EU - it's a part of the contract we made three months earlier, part of our allocated supply chain.

We have not in any way, shape or form interfered with their vaccine allocation.

 

[tsubaki]

You can be as angry as you like with AZ but it will make no difference. Everybody needs vaccine, they make it. You can sue them and get money, but you won’t get vaccine. You can slag them off in the press for your own political failures, but you still won’t get vaccine. It’s time the EU addressed the real issue, helping AZ in getting the plants making the vaccine up to speed, instead of crying and bullying. Anyone, other than die hard Remainers or those employed by the EU know they’ve cocked up and are continuing to dig a big hole for themselves....

lol

ladies and gentlemen, modern capitalism summed up in a post.

 

[tsubaki]

No, we have a set supply in contract, so it's our vaccine. It's not taking away from the EU - it's a part of the contract we made three months earlier, part of our allocated supply chain.

We have not in any way, shape or form interfered with their vaccine allocation.

Tubey - we have a contract; the EU have a contract.

If our contract directly contradicts theirs, rendering a really quite important clause (edit) in theirs void, then it’s really hard to see how that isn’t us affecting their vaccine supply when it really is doing that.

The fault, of course, is with the firm who signed both deals. Be angry with them!

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

One good thing done doesn't erase bad things done. But the good thing still exists in its' own right.

It's not a thought crime for your personal side to just acknowledge when the other side gets something right.

Brexit is still stupid, but the EU have been ridiculous here. The Tories are still an incompetent mess, but they've somehow stumbled upon absolutely nailing one specific thing.

103,126 dead people are just not bad things done. Not sure many people are suggesting the vaccine role out is not a success... I don't think they stumbled on it they just realised where their own incompetence and greed had led the country and out self preservation felt compelled to finally act and turn to all state mechanisms.

Sounds like EU are just going in hard as negotiation tactic see what falls. I suspect with almost certainty they are privy to information they cant really share at this point. Which has given them the confidence to react in this manner. EU have already acted against the city with the clearing houses. Long term financial suffrage is their schtick , just cant see the EU wanting to effect live and death situations, unlike like some of our lot...

 

[Tubey]

Tubey - we have a contract; the EU have a contract.

If our contract directly contradicts theirs, rendering a really quite important clause void, then it’s really hard to see how that isn’t us affecting their vaccine supply when it really is doing that.

The fault, of course, is with the firm who signed both deals. Be angry with them!

Again, that's a dispute with AZ and the EU. It's not the UK.

You said "the EU interfer[ing] with our vaccines (made in the EU)... is much worse than us interfering in theirs (made in the UK)."

That is incorrect. The UK haven't interfered in any way. Whereas the EU directly threatened to stop supply of the Pfizer vaccine, and directly demanded UK doses settled in an entirely separate contract.

AZ are simply fulfilling the UK contract as ordered, which was placed three months earlier. They've screwed up the EU contract. The EU have a right to be angry at that. But at AZ, not the UK. The UK having a contract fulfilled isn't "interfering" with the EU's supply, as they are allocated separately, like any business would do.

 

[tsubaki]

Again, that's a dispute with AZ and the EU. It's not the UK.

You said "the EU interfer[ing] with our vaccines (made in the EU)... is much worse than us interfering in theirs (made in the UK)."

That is incorrect. The UK haven't interfered in any way. Whereas the EU directly threatened to stop supply of the Pfizer vaccine, and directly demanded UK doses settled in an entirely separate contract.

AZ are simply fulfilling the UK contract as ordered, which was placed three months earlier. They've screwed up the EU contract. The EU have a right to be angry at that. But at AZ, not the UK. The UK having a contract fulfilled isn't "interfering" with the EU's supply, as they are allocated separately, like any business would do.

Are we allowing AZ vaccines to go to the EU now? It seems not.

This is because of the contract we signed (and as said before it’d be interesting to find out if we’ve done that with all vaccines) but from the EUs perspective it’s very hard to see why a circumstance specifically put into the contract they signed is invalidated because of something in ours.

I agree with you though that the fault is with AZ, and the remedy has to be provided by them, not allowing them to hide behind the contract with us (this is especially true if they have actually been exporting EU produced vaccine to us).

 

[arminisgod]

so... AZ did actually sign a contract with 'best resonable efforts'

 

[peteblue]

Oh dear....

“There are binding orders and the contract is crystal clear," Mrs von der Leyen said in Friday morning's radio interview.
"'Best effort' was valid while it was still unclear whether they could develop a vaccine. That time is behind us. The vaccine is there.”

I don’t know if she is being deliberately obtuse or if she is stupid. The contract states best effort in developing a manufacturing capability to deliver the 300M doses.....

 

[Tubey]

Are we allowing AZ vaccines to go to the EU now? It seems not.

This is because of the contract we signed (and as said before it’ interesting to find out if we’ve done that with all vaccines) but from the EUs perspective it’s very hard to see why a circumstance specifically put into the contract they signed is invalidated because of something in ours.

I agree with you though that the fault is with AZ, and the remedy has to be provided by them, not allowing them to hide behind the contract with us (this is especially true if they have actually been exporting EU produced vaccine to us).

Yes we are. Any supply from UK facilities not contracted for UK consumption is unaffected. There's been nothing to suggest that isn't the case. If we had, it'd be publicised far and wide.

However, clearly, the bulk of EU contracted allocation was from EU facilities, hence why they're badly affected.

The contract they signed isn't invalidated - it said all factories could be used to best efforts, and obvious "best efforts" doesn't mean breaching an earlier contract to meet theirs.