Current Affairs EU In or Out

[arminisgod]

They have, with the promise that Q1 delivery will still happen.

That’s the big difference here, and why the EU aren’t having a go at Pfizer either. If Pfizer has said we (or the EU) will be only getting 40% of the order then we’d be going after them as well.

So when Pfizer don't deliver on that are they going to demand it from the US or threaten them with tariffs?

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Really? If AZ had told us we’d get 40% of what we’d ordered, paid for and they’d promised to deliver, do you think we would have remained silent?

The EU are entirely right to kick off in these circumstances, as we would be.

If you think that the EU has handled this situation appropriately then there's not much that can be said - if that is how you see appropriate behaviour for such matters.

Seeing an EU official declare on a press interview that the EU will 'take' the supply from the UK, not work with AstraZenica to remedy the problem was badly advised and lacking diplomacy. I am sure that they understand that drawing 'Brexit Britain' into the mix and to insinuate that the EU will take supply that might be earmarked for UK citizens was totally unacceptable and inflammatory. Newsworthy for the watching EU citizens, though and shifts the focus.

The vaccine is also made in India. They might have said that they will work with partners to draw the supply from global production centres (Europe the UK and India) but instead, they have so far chosen to make this about taking the UK's supply. They have not to my knowledge stated taking supply from India, just the UK.

It feels very much like a PR exercise using those who must be made an example of in an attempt to deflect from their poor handling of rolling out a vaccination programme.

With regards to contractual obligations, until the distribution clauses of the contracts have been agreed by the respective parties lawyers, all the arguing about the specifics of delivery on here is pointless.

I will add, that given that the vaccine has been approved for emergency use by half a dozen countries, including Argentina, India, Pakistan and Mexico, that it will be interesting to see if the EU demand an equitable share among all countries contracted to receive the vaccine, or if they will contradict their current position.

 

[tsubaki]

So when Pfizer don't deliver on that are they going to demand it from the US or threaten them with tariffs?

did you even read what was posted?

If Pfizer don’t deliver what they contracted to deliver to us, or the EU, then *they* should be dealt with under the same law that any breached contract would be.

If they stopped our delivery to give it to the EU, we should absolutely go after them.

Bringing nations / nation blocs into it is nothing more than a deliberate distraction, a “PR battle” to use @Spadge Vernacular ’s phrase.

 

[tsubaki]

If you think that the EU has handled this situation appropriately then there's not much that can be said - if that is how you see appropriate behaviour for such matters.

Seeing an EU official declare on a press interview that the EU will 'take' the supply from the UK, not work with AstraZenica to remedy the problem was badly advised and lacking diplomacy. I am sure that they understand that drawing 'Brexit Britain' into the mix and to insinuate that the EU will take supply that might be earmarked for UK citizens was totally unacceptable and inflammatory. Newsworthy for the watching EU citizens, though and shifts the focus.

The vaccine is also made in India. They might have said that they will work with partners to draw the supply from global production centres (Europe the UK and India) but instead, they have so far chosen to make this about taking the UK's supply. They have not to my knowledge stated taking supply from India, just the UK.

It feels very much like a PR exercise using those who must be made an example of in an attempt to deflect from their poor handling of rolling out a vaccination programme.

With regards to contractual obligations, until the distribution clauses of the contracts have been agreed by the respective parties lawyers, all the arguing about the specifics of delivery on here is pointless.

I will add, that given that the vaccine has been approved for emergency use by half a dozen countries, including Argentina, India, Pakistan and Mexico, that it will be interesting to see if the EU demand an equitable share among all countries contracted to receive the vaccine, or if they will contradict their current position.

there’s an awful lot of recycled PR here for someone claiming to oppose PR battles

the issue boils down to this - did AZ guarantee delivery of an amount of vaccines on a schedule to the EU, and if so are they going to deliver them to that schedule?

everything else is not relevant, and is probably PR of the kind attacked here

 

[Tubey]

there’s an awful lot of recycled PR here for someone claiming to oppose PR battles

the issue boils down to this - did AZ guarantee delivery of an amount of vaccines on a schedule to the EU, and if so are they going to deliver them to that schedule?

everything else is not relevant, and is probably PR of the kind attacked here

Everything else is relevant. The EU threatening to withhold supplies. Demanding UK stock. All relevant when discussing the EU as an entity.

And as an entity, their actions of late have sadly been a walking, talking advert for Brexit. They've been everything they've been accused of being - rigid, slow, arrogant, bullying.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

there’s an awful lot of recycled PR here for someone claiming to oppose PR battles

the issue boils down to this - did AZ guarantee delivery of an amount of vaccines on a schedule to the EU, and if so are they going to deliver them to that schedule?

everything else is not relevant, and is probably PR of the kind attacked here

The situation just lacks diplomacy, IMO.

I would much prefer if we were taking a one world approach. Even though we have Covax there is a whiff of every man for himself.

 

[roydo]

there’s an awful lot of recycled PR here for someone claiming to oppose PR battles

the issue boils down to this - did AZ guarantee delivery of an amount of vaccines on a schedule to the EU, and if so are they going to deliver them to that schedule?

everything else is not relevant, and is probably PR of the kind attacked here

Even assuming you know the guarantees in the contracts, (you dont), what on earth has an EU procurement delay have to do with the UK?

Thats what many folk cant grasp; and many of those were remainers.

 

[tsubaki]

Everything else is relevant. The EU threatening to withhold supplies. Demanding UK stock. All relevant when discussing the EU as an entity.

And as an entity, their actions of late have sadly been a walking, talking advert for Brexit. They've been everything they've been accused of being - rigid, slow, arrogant, bullying.

Everything in this debate been framed in that context, by the same papers and people who always frame the EU in that context. I am bc a bit surprised that youve signed up though.

Did AZ tell the EU that they wouldn’t be able to supply as much vaccine as they were delivering to the UK because they hadn’t been as quick to sign up, and sign a contract on the lower figure? No? Then I guess all the things espoused as a reason why AZ are right to not deliver what they promised are pretty moot.

 

[Tubey]

Even assuming you know the guarantees in the contracts, (you dont), what on earth has an EU procurement delay have to do with the UK?

Thats what many folk cant grasp; and many of those were remainers.

As many have said, imagine the shoe on the other foot and we were threatening to withhold vaccines and demand EU ones, because of a governmental dispute with a private company?

The same people defending the EU in here due to bias would be slating the Tories, absolutely no question.

 

[edge]

Everything else is relevant. The EU threatening to withhold supplies. Demanding UK stock. All relevant when discussing the EU as an entity.

And as an entity, their actions of late have sadly been a walking, talking advert for Brexit. They've been everything they've been accused of being - rigid, slow, arrogant, bullying.

The UK set up two factories for the company in this country, on the understanding that we got the first hundred million vaccines, understandably they expect that to be honoured.
If the EU kick of we just mirror there actions, we are producing two of the vaccines here and have orders for others they have no control over, so it's a bit daft to threaten a neighbour that could in a few months be a valuable asset in the fight agaist the virus.
Shame these politicians are more concerned about politics than peoples health.

 

[Tubey]

Everything in this debate been framed in that context, by the same papers and people who always frame the EU in that context. I am bc a bit surprised that youve signed up though.

Did AZ tell the EU that they wouldn’t be able to supply as much vaccine as they were delivering to the UK because they hadn’t been as quick to sign up, and sign a contract on the lower figure? No? Then I guess all the things espoused as a reason why AZ are right to not deliver what they promised are pretty moot.

Yes actually, Soriot stated the UK were three months earlier and contractually ensured a set portion of production from UK factories.

It's nothing to do with the UK. This is a dispute between AZ and the EU. The EU have made it about the UK for no valid reason.

 

[tsubaki]

Even assuming you know the guarantees in the contracts, (you dont), what on earth has an EU procurement delay have to do with the UK?

Thats what many folk cant grasp; and many of those were remainers.

It has nothing to do with the UK; that’s the point.

If they can’t deliver what was agreed with the EU, the fault lies entirely with AZ. It’s for them to either remedy or pay compo. (edit). You are right I don’t know the exact terms of the deal, but a lot of what we do know strongly suggests that they did.

If they delay our deliveries, against the term if our contract, we should go after them as well.

 

[Tubey]

The UK set up two factories for the company in this country, on the understanding that we got the first hundred million vaccines, understandably they expect that to be honoured.
If the EU kick of we just mirror there actions, we are producing two of the vaccines here and have orders for others they have no control over, so it's a bit daft to threaten a neighbour that could in a few months be a valuable asset in the fight agaist the virus.
Shame these politicians are more concerned about politics than peoples health.

That's the part I don't understand and what I said yesterday - instead of playing politics to shift the blame for their own failings, the EU should be negotiating on a good faith basis with the UK for possible excess supply, not getting our backs up over something that is nothing to do with us.

I've been firmly pro-EU, still am, think Brexit was mind-numbingly stupid - but you have to call a spade a spade and clearly, very clearly, the EU have been ridiculous here.

 

[peteblue]

Does "not doing too bad a job of it" equate to having far more deaths than anywhere else in Europe? Nearly three times as many per capita as your beloved Germany. Is that doing okay in your book? And that's even with the pig's ear mainland Europe is making of vaccinations. Indeed, the average deaths per million across the EU27 is just over 800. In the UK it's over 1,500. Get out the bunting.

Or to put it another way, if the EU27 had the same death rate as the UK it would have resulted in over 300,000 more people having died.

Comparing deaths now are we, gutter stuff this Bruce, remember each one is someone’s family. The Vaccine debate is about saving lives not counting deaths.

But as you raised it, if you actually look at the graphs from Germany you will see that there is no consistency, that large numbers get added every now and again. This tells me, as it did right from the beginning, that Germany are changing the figures and causes to fit a narrative. The only two country graphs that at least show consistency are the U.K. and USA....

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Comparing deaths now are we, gutter stuff this Bruce, remember each one is someone’s family. The Vaccine debate is about saving lives not counting deaths.

But as you raised it, if you actually look at the graphs from Germany you will see that there is no consistency, that large numbers get added every now and again. This tells me, as it did right from the beginning, that Germany are changing the figures and causes to fit a narrative. The only two country graphs that at least show consistency are the U.K. and USA....

Saving lives is ultimately what everyone is trying to do with this. The vaccine programme is a part of that. Just saying that trumpeting the success the UK is having with vaccines when so many more people have died than need to have been the case is not a great look. Most of those dying at the moment will have caught the virus over Christmas when everything was so ballsed up.