Current Affairs EU In or Out

[BlueDraka]

Leavers slapping each other on the back. Because Hornby apparently manufacturers everything in China. Despite factory here in the UK for several years now! Leavers and Stupid are synonymous!

How much production is in the UK? Very very little. You obviously want to remain but anyone who wants to leave is stupid. Think that is stupid myself

 

[Blue 1]

Tried to read it but it comes up with something asking me to sign up

Ah, crap. It let me read it once before putting that up. Was hoping it would be the same for everyone. Soz.

 

[peteblue]

How do you mean? Genuinely interested in your opinion on this. I had not given much thought to this aspect, just focussed on economic & social matters.

As Bruce has alluded to, I have a long term fear of an overbearing Brussels with an Eu army, but even in the very short term look at the Covid virus where the EU’s EMA still hasn’t authorised the vaccine. Both the U.K. and the USA have approved its use, the German Health Minister is going bananas at the EMA who initially said 29Dec but as a result of Political pressure are now saying the 21Dec. It’s a joke but pretty well sums up the glacial nature of EU decision making.....

 

[Alan Whittle]

As Bruce has alluded to, I have a long term fear of an overbearing Brussels with an Eu army, but even in the very short term look at the Covid virus where the EU’s EMA still hasn’t authorised the vaccine. Both the U.K. and the USA have approved its use, the German Health Minister is going bananas at the EMA who initially said 29Dec but as a result of Political pressure are now saying the 21Dec. It’s a joke but pretty well sums up the glacial nature of EU decision making.....

Thanks.Yes, I take your point re decision making. You have been consistent in your views re an EU army but would not such a united body be a better deterrent to a resurgent Russia than a fragmented set of armies whose governments could be played off against each other?

 

[Blue 1]

Thanks.Yes, I take your point re decision making. You have been consistent in your views re an EU army but would not such a united body be a better deterrent to a resurgent Russia than a fragmented set of armies whose governments are being played off against each other?

Is more like it.

 

[Zezti]

The 'S' word being used as another excuse for being uncooperative little turds, again, in the face of something as simple as keeping a tunnel working.

All of this has been such a terrible idea, and its not even properly begun yet.

 

[edge]

Thanks.Yes, I take your point re decision making. You have been consistent in your views re an EU army but would not such a united body be a better deterrent to a resurgent Russia than a fragmented set of armies whose governments could be played off against each other?

The same governments with a EU army would have to give permission on a majority to use the EU army agaist the Russians they would be outside Paris by the time they had set a date for the meeting.
That's what nato is supposed to be for anyway and most of the EU dont spend what they should on that, begs the questioning would they pay for both and how?

Russia are not going to attack Europe anyway there are 2 nuclear powers and the USA to contend with, thanks to nato .
While there is a case for cooperation on arms and strategic spending between countries, (think us and France have just done something with the Navy.) I think is a vanity project for the EU , if they want one good luck to them .
Once that knob Putin is out of the way , we might have a different outlook towards each other in the future,
China I would be more worried about but it looks like the west is setting India up as its counter to them in that region along with other countries that are increasingly expanding there militarily spending, Australia, Taiwan , Japan . would say China not the Russians are more of a danger on the world stage at the present time.

 

[Blues Harp]

The same governments with a EU army would have to give permission on a majority to use the EU army agaist the Russians they would be outside Paris by the time they had set a date for the meeting.
That's what nato is supposed to be for anyway and most of the EU dont spend what they should on that, begs the questioning would they pay for both and how?

Russia are not going to attack Europe anyway there are 2 nuclear powers and the USA to contend with, thanks to nato .
While there is a case for cooperation on arms and strategic spending between countries, (think us and France have just done something with the Navy.) I think is a vanity project for the EU , if they want one good luck to them .
Once that knob Putin is out of the way , we might have a different outlook towards each other in the future,
China I would be more worried about but it looks like the west is setting India up as its counter to them in that region along with other countries that are increasingly expanding there militarily spending, Australia, Taiwan , Japan . would say China not the Russians are more of a danger on the world stage at the present time.

Why would China attack us?

 

[ste d' indica]

Why would we sign a deal that isn't in are interests ?
The USA has the UK as its biggest overseas investor, so it's not as easy as it seems to just to steam roll us.
In this case it will be written directly into are laws, as it near mirrors the EU one, and we will be doing business with them as well it will not be so easy to just give it up.
Biden has said they are looking to the homeland first before he enters any deals with the UK or the EU or anybody else, so unless he is lying it's not something that going to happen any time soon.
As a block the EU makes deals for all 27 members not, the best one for the UK or anybody else(other than Germany/France) in most cases.
A position of strength for a collective do not mean it's the best thing for the all the members,
If we want we can vote out the government, if it becomes as you say a race to the bottom.
It's in are hands, it's up to us what we do with it.
Only problem for me is i don't trust the current government to do the right thing .

Data Protection is likely to be one of the first areas that shows the folly of all this. We need to have regulatory alignment with the EU in order to gain an adequacy decision to allow companies to continue to move personal data across the continent, essential for finance, services, even goods to an extent.
Now, that should actually be fairly straightforward and an early agreement as we already have that alignment.
Countries are working towards regulatory alignment with the EU to allow that sort of data movement. If you look at DP acts across the world they mirror the previous DPA 98 which came from a European Directive also, and places like Japan, Brazil, California, Canada are redrafting laws to ensure that continues.

I'm not saying this bunch of halfwits don't want to tear up the GDPR/DPA 18, but it ain't that simple. And we've had a data protection act in this country since '84.

So back to my opening point, it will be an area of regulation that it'll become quickly apparent that we will need to continue to enforce and match, but have little influence over, when we were in fact a driving force behind it - these laws weren't forced upon us, we were instrumental parts of the process, and in fact often led the way.

 

[Amw79]

 

[edge]

Why would China attack us?

They wouldn't military , economical and use of their influence agaist us is a different ball game they would attack us on those fronts
Basically we have nukes, germ warfare ect it would be madness to ever attempt to invade the UK , much safer to use other means to bring down a country.
Look at how they are treating Australia at the moment over a supposed insult.

 

[ste d' indica]

Our negotiators have set the place on fire and legged it haven't they?

 

[peteblue]

Thanks.Yes, I take your point re decision making. You have been consistent in your views re an EU army but would not such a united body be a better deterrent to a resurgent Russia than a fragmented set of armies whose governments could be played off against each other?

The problem as I see it is that we have no mark politicians in the EU who like flexing their muscles. Russia is not really a threat to the EU or the west militarily because they know that NATO could flatten it. So then you get to the question of why the EU needs an army, what is it for and who will control it. NATO does this at the moment and has been very successful because it has the USA joined at the hip and providing most of the money and hardware. But the EU has ambitions to be one of the big boys and throw its weight around. Once it has its own army it will do so and the recipient of this arrogance will be Russia and it’s borders and satellite countries, as the EU seeks to grow (look at Ukraine). The Russians have experience of German expansion. When the inevitable happens and the EU pushes too hard without USA blessing, NATO will not be involved and it will be down to the EU, and I do not want the U.K. to be part of it......

 

[Zezti]

The problem as I see it is that we have no mark politicians in the EU who like flexing their muscles. Russia is not really a threat to the EU or the west militarily because they know that NATO could flatten it. So then you get to the question of why the EU needs an army, what is it for and who will control it. NATO does this at the moment and has been very successful because it has the USA joined at the hip and providing most of the money and hardware. But the EU has ambitions to be one of the big boys and throw its weight around. Once it has its own army it will do so and the recipient of this arrogance will be Russia and it’s borders and satellite countries, as the EU seeks to grow (look at Ukraine). The Russians have experience of German expansion. When the inevitable happens and the EU pushes too hard without USA blessing, NATO will not be involved and it will be down to the EU, and I do not want the U.K. to be part of it......

so to summarise; "the EU are big mean nasties, I said so, and this is what will happen and its inevitable. see? they bad"

 

[Alan Whittle]

The problem as I see it is that we have no mark politicians in the EU who like flexing their muscles. Russia is not really a threat to the EU or the west militarily because they know that NATO could flatten it. So then you get to the question of why the EU needs an army, what is it for and who will control it. NATO does this at the moment and has been very successful because it has the USA joined at the hip and providing most of the money and hardware. But the EU has ambitions to be one of the big boys and throw its weight around. Once it has its own army it will do so and the recipient of this arrogance will be Russia and it’s borders and satellite countries, as the EU seeks to grow (look at Ukraine). The Russians have experience of German expansion. When the inevitable happens and the EU pushes too hard without USA blessing, NATO will not be involved and it will be down to the EU, and I do not want the U.K. to be part of it......

To be honest I don’t share your view (aside from the bit about EU politicians) Whilst there is understandable remaining lack of trust between Russia and Germany, any attempted eastward expansion is far from inevitable and in any case would be thwarted by NATO. More likely would be Russian expansion westwards (Ukraine etc) and the question is how best to deal with it. (I don’t know the answer to that.)