Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
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peteblue said:
The problem as I see it is that we have no mark politicians in the EU who like flexing their muscles. Russia is not really a threat to the EU or the west militarily because they know that NATO could flatten it. So then you get to the question of why the EU needs an army, what is it for and who will control it. NATO does this at the moment and has been very successful because it has the USA joined at the hip and providing most of the money and hardware. But the EU has ambitions to be one of the big boys and throw its weight around. Once it has its own army it will do so and the recipient of this arrogance will be Russia and it’s borders and satellite countries, as the EU seeks to grow (look at Ukraine). The Russians have experience of German expansion. When the inevitable happens and the EU pushes too hard without USA blessing, NATO will not be involved and it will be down to the EU, and I do not want the U.K. to be part of it......
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Another fairy story you tell to the villagers....aka your mates in da pub..
:coffee:
 
Alan Whittle said:
To be honest I don’t share your view (aside from the bit about EU politicians) Whilst there is understandable remaining lack of trust between Russia and Germany, any attempted eastward expansion is far from inevitable and in any case would be thwarted by NATO. More likely would be Russian expansion westwards (Ukraine etc) and the question is how best to deal with it. (I don’t know the answer to that.)
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But this is what the EU was doing in trying to get Ukraine onside. As a result many people, including innocent airplane passengers have died and the south east is still a point of contention. The USA and UK stood back from all this and Germany and France have been the ones involved. If the EU had an army those two would have marched it through the Ukraine.... again I ask the question, why does the EU which is not a sovereign state (yet) require an army, why do you think they want to develop one...
 
peteblue said:
But this is what the EU was doing in trying to get Ukraine onside. As a result many people, including innocent airplane passengers have died and the south east is still a point of contention. The USA and UK stood back from all this and Germany and France have been the ones involved. If the EU had an army those two would have marched it through the Ukraine.... again I ask the question, why does the EU which is not a sovereign state (yet) require an army, why do you think they want to develop one...
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As I said previously, I don’t know the answer in Ukraine. Germany and France are acting as representatives of their own sovereign states and it is likely that is a position taken with NATO approval and possibly part of a strategy which might escalate if required. To answer your questions;Armies have arisen in history to defend economic interest or gain additional benefit. I don‘t think the EU want to develop an army in the ”single command” sense that I think you mean.
 
Alan Whittle said:
As I said previously, I don’t know the answer in Ukraine. Germany and France are acting as representatives of their own sovereign states and it is likely that is a position taken with NATO approval and possibly part of a strategy which might escalate if required. To answer your questions;Armies have arisen in history to defend economic interest or gain additional benefit. I don‘t think the EU want to develop an army in the ”single command” sense that I think you mean.
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They most certainly do, and it is France that wishes to control it. Look how they are attempting to stop Turkey doing maritime exploration. The EU have effectively said they control all the east Mediterranean due to Greece and Cyprus virtually up to the Turkish coastline. Legally this is correct because of the proximity of Greek islands, but in the eyes of the Turks ‘it isn’t fair’ And they wanted to talk it through with Greece. But what happened, France decided to send a couple of Rafale jets and a frigate to the region and stoked up tensions, on behalf of the EU. Turkey is a member of NATO. Greece and Turkey could probably sort this out, with political pressure from EU, USA and U.K.... what it doesn’t need is the EU trying to throw its military weight around. What would happen if the French and Turkey accidentally bumped into each other...there would be chaos, and Russia would then step into the conflict and make political gain.....we have national militaries and we have NATO, what we don’t need is a ham fisted EU military......
 
peteblue said:
They most certainly do, and it is France that wishes to control it. Look how they are attempting to stop Turkey doing maritime exploration. The EU have effectively said they control all the east Mediterranean due to Greece and Cyprus virtually up to the Turkish coastline. Legally this is correct because of the proximity of Greek islands, but in the eyes of the Turks ‘it isn’t fair’ And they wanted to talk it through with Greece. But what happened, France decided to send a couple of Rafale jets and a frigate to the region and stoked up tensions, on behalf of the EU. Turkey is a member of NATO. Greece and Turkey could probably sort this out, with political pressure from EU, USA and U.K.... what it doesn’t need is the EU trying to throw its military weight around. What would happen if the French and Turkey accidentally bumped into each other...there would be chaos, and Russia would then step into the conflict and make political gain.....we have national militaries and we have NATO, what we don’t need is a ham fisted EU military......
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NATO is a puppet organisation of the USA.
Its members can do nothing without the approval of the pentagon.
 
peteblue said:
what it doesn’t need is the EU trying to throw its military weight around. What would happen if the French and Turkey accidentally bumped into each other
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The same as what would happen now, without an EU Army. I am not suggesting that an EU Army would be a good thing, but like minded nations have always supported or committed to support each other militarily for all sorts of reasons and will continue to do so. A post Brexit UK will not shirk from it’s obligations.
 
One benefit of a hypothetical EU army is that it would further minimise the chances of a major war on the continent (and therefore any major war that would impact the UK).

The idea that France and Germany would march an EU army through the Ukraine is, of course, completely and utter poppycock.

Also, considering we have built up an integrated capability with France ourselves, it would seem a tad hypocritical to be against EU member states building up a similar integrated capability with eachother.

www.gov.uk

UK and France able to deploy a 10,000 strong joint military force in response to shared threats

This major milestone comes as the two countries commemorate the 10th anniversary of the Lancaster House defence and security, and nuclear treaties.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
 
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