Current Affairs EU In or Out

[JimmyJeffers]

It's increasingly clear that 'sovereignty' is outweighing any real benefit to the country. That I'm fairly sure that wasn't in the brochure whatsoever is seemingly irrelevant.

It’s a disgrace. Whole thing stinks

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It’s a disgrace. Whole thing stinks

It is daft. The whole point of governance is to make things better, not worse, all for some illusion of input in matters. 31 million people voted in the last election, so your 'say' is worth incredibly little. You wouldn't argue that buying a lottery ticket gives you a say in your future prosperity.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Today's Brexit hot take:

A non-binding referendum is absolutely binding on the UK, but a non-binding political declaration can be completely ignored as it is non-binding.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Mate

People keep on posting links to this report believing it is gospel. In truth, it is total bubbles.

Here's a post I did a few weeks ago in response to a link. I did a couple more yesterday in the benefits of Brexit thread.

I wanted to find out if you fully understood the figures and what they represent, because I remember the article you are referring to. It is very misleading, not to mention extremely ambitious as regards what it believes we have missed out on in economic growth over the last 3 years due to uncertainty over Brexit.

The majority of people reading that article, and also reading your post, would assume that what the Government has lost in income from economic growth over the last 3 years is roughly the equivalent of what we have paid into the EU since we joined. Yes? Well actually No. What the article is saying is that the UK has lost out on economic growth of £130bn over the last 3 years. Even if these figures were remotely accurate, the UK governments annual income is roughly about 35% of GDP, so it's income from this "missing" economic growth would only be in the region of £45bn. Compare this to our total "net" contributions to the EU over the last 47 years of around £177bn. By my reckoning that's just over 25%.

Then you ask the question where do they get these figures for loss of growth from and how do they justify them. Just looking at the economic growth rates for 2018 and 2019, the UK grew by 1.3% and 1.4% respectively. During the same time period Germany grew by 1.3% and 0.6%, the USA 2.9% and 2.1%, and France 1.7% and 1.1%. Now if we assume we are missing out on around £45bn growth (£130bn divided by 3) per annum, that would actually increase our annual growth three fold. So our growth would actually be around 4%. It goes on to say that we will lose an estimated £70bn growth this year too which would have our growth rates pushing 6%. How can they justify these sort of figures when our peers are performing much the same as us, if not worse.

There is no doubt that our economy has been held back to a degree due to the uncertainty over Brexit, but the figures being quoted here are much more pie in the sky than the future trade deals you mention, most of which we haven't even begun to negotiate yet.

This is exactly what I refer to when I talk about scaremongering and "project fear".

 

[davek]

It's increasingly clear that 'sovereignty' is outweighing any real benefit to the country. That I'm fairly sure that wasn't in the brochure whatsoever is seemingly irrelevant.

It didn't have to be. The Leave lobby knew their audience and they knew the dog whistles they needed to make to sway them over to their side.

There was a huge audience of xenophobes they played to. The nature of the British working class and its identification with colonialism ran through the centre of the Leave campaign, and its message was wolfed down them. "We dont need Europe, we had an empire. And we shouldn't have to share our scarce local resources with non-white people or honourary blacks from eastern Europe, people we used to be able to look down on."

 

[roydo]

It didn't have to be. The Leave lobby knew their audience and they knew the dog whistles they needed to make to sway them over to their side.

There was a huge audience of xenophobes they played to. The nature of the British working class and its identification with colonialism ran through the centre of the Leave campaign, and its message was wolfed down them. "We dont need Europe, we had an empire. And we shouldn't have to share our scarce local resources with non-white people or honourary blacks from eastern Europe, people we used to be able to look down on."

I rarely sign up to your view of the world, despite my admiration for your steadfastness, but that is unfortunately the kernel of what happened. Not to everyone, and I have no issue with posters who can demonstrate reasoned reasons for their dislike of the EU.

But for too many, you are pretty near the nail.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It didn't have to be. The Leave lobby knew their audience and they knew the dog whistles they needed to make to sway them over to their side.

There was a huge audience of xenophobes they played to. The nature of the British working class and its identification with colonialism ran through the centre of the Leave campaign, and its message was wolfed down them. "We dont need Europe, we had an empire. And we shouldn't have to share our scarce local resources with non-white people or honourary blacks from eastern Europe, people we used to be able to look down on."

I did ponder this a while back, as obviously Slavs were regarded as untermensch by the Nazis, and yet here they are in Britain doing well (and in some cases doing better than the working class in jobs that were traditionally 'theirs'. There wasn't this discontent about immigration prior to 2004 and the A8 countries joining the EU, and you sense it's not discontent about French or Italian migrants.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I did ponder this a while back, as obviously Slavs were regarded as untermensch by the Nazis, and yet here they are in Britain doing well (and in some cases doing better than the working class in jobs that were traditionally 'theirs'. There wasn't this discontent about immigration prior to 2004 and the A8 countries joining the EU, and you sense it's not discontent about French or Italian migrants.

There was plenty of discontent about immigration before 2004, just not Freedom of Movement, I make you right on why that changed.

 

[davek]

I did ponder this a while back, as obviously Slavs were regarded as untermensch by the Nazis, and yet here they are in Britain doing well (and in some cases doing better than the working class in jobs that were traditionally 'theirs'. There wasn't this discontent about immigration prior to 2004 and the A8 countries joining the EU, and you sense it's not discontent about French or Italian migrants.

Let's face it, half of the divvies thought that they were voting for Pakistanis, Indians and Afro-Caribbean settled communities to be 'sent home'.

They aren't clever people were dealing with.

Not to be too snotty, but I'd 'wager' the Leave voters were about 30 to 40 IQ points down on the voters who went with Remain.

 

[davek]

I rarely sign up to your view of the world, despite my admiration for your steadfastness, but that is unfortunately the kernel of what happened. Not to everyone, and I have no issue with posters who can demonstrate reasoned reasons for their dislike of the EU.

But for too many, you are pretty near the nail.

Just look at the "Independence Night" knees up...that told you everything: Para Regiment banners, VE Day theme nights.

It was a festival of jingoism that drew on the past - when everyone was white in Britain.

 

[roydo]

Just look at the "Independence Night" knees up...that told you everything: Para Regiment banners, VE Day theme nights.

It was a festival of jingoism that drew on the past - when everyone was white in Britain.

I dont need to mate. I posted a while ago, that in 2012, the Olympics, the UK projected an image of a multi ethnic, young, outward looking nation. celebrating an athletes achievement irrespective of what corner of the UK they came from, what colour their skin was, nor who they fell in love with.

And a nation comfortable in their skin. (sic)

What a difference we now project.

 

[davek]

I dont need to mate. I posted a while ago, that in 2012, the Olympics, the UK projected an image of a multi ethnic, young, outward looking nation. celebrating an athletes achievement irrespective of what corner of the UK they came from, what colour their skin was, nor who they fell in love with.

And a nation comfortable in their skin. (sic)

What a difference we now project.

You can be sure that when that was happening there were millions of face gurning racists screaming at the telly, who would only acknowledge white (real) British athletic successes.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Let's face it, half of the divvies thought that they were voting for Pakistanis, Indians and Afro-Caribbean settled communities to be 'sent home'.

They aren't clever people were dealing with.

Not to be too snotty, but I'd 'wager' the Leave voters were about 30 to 40 IQ points down on the voters who went with Remain.

This’ll go well........

 

[Aqui1a]

Let's face it, half of the divvies thought that they were voting for Pakistanis, Indians and Afro-Caribbean settled communities to be 'sent home'.

They aren't clever people were dealing with.

Not to be too snotty, but I'd 'wager' the Leave voters were about 30 to 40 IQ points down on the voters who went with Remain.

I always love hearing the inclusive and accepting labour supporter davek talk so derisively about the uk working class. lol

 

[davek]

I always love hearing the inclusive and accepting labour supporter davek talk so derisively about the uk working class. lol

Not the working class, the lumpen proletariat. It's a crucial distinction.