Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
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edge said:
i openly said before the GE, i would have seen the end of brexit, rather than have the tories in power, well Johnson to be exact ,
I feel he will be more danger to the working man than the EU ever was.
He like him or not is intelligent and gets the things he wants done, with little regard for anybody or anything outside of his interests.
Don't think the working class , is top of his list unless its to get him and his what they want .
i voted Labour despite my misgivings on the party and its leadership , and would have done so even if the went all out to stay.
DON'T trust Johnson , and feel even normally leaning tory voters will see a side of the party they haven't seen before.
hope i am wrong
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Those lexiteers who supposedly lent their vote to Johnson to just get Brexit done, if you vote for a tory and you'll get a tory.
 
Barnfred 55 said:
It all seems very petty and reminds me of when the negotiations on the withdrawal agreement started. A lot of negativity and conditions from the EU side. But at the end of the day Pete, the EU need to be making some wins in the negotiations. If giving up these artefacts leads to a trade deal then so what? Same with the fishing rights. UK waters are teeming with fish which is why they are so prized. We can share them with the EU and still leave our fishing fleets much better off than they are currently, and insist on tariff free trade on fishing products in return as most of our product is exported to the EU.

There's a lot of testosterone about at the moment, on both sides, so let's hope that the politicians put their penis's back in their trousers and hand over to the diplomats. when the negotiations start.
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Diplomats?
 
Meanwhile, it looks like the transition period will end with No Deal. We may as well get used to it and prepare accordingly. The EU are doing cartwheels trying to explain why a deal can’t be done unless we follow their rules, without even once considering that perhaps they should follow our rules. It won’t be reconciled and we should just go our separate ways, remove our military from Europe, cut off military Intelligence, allow the City of London free rein to undercut any financial transaction costs, go to WTO tariffs and do deals with the USA, China, India, etc. If nothing else this whole process has shown just how slow and cumbersome a 27 country bloc is in terms of doing deals and promoting trade. It’s just a large bureaucracy with 27 anchors attached to it........
 
peteblue said:
Meanwhile, it looks like the transition period will end with No Deal. We may as well get used to it and prepare accordingly. The EU are doing cartwheels trying to explain why a deal can’t be done unless we follow their rules, without even once considering that perhaps they should follow our rules. It won’t be reconciled and we should just go our separate ways, remove our military from Europe, cut off military Intelligence, allow the City of London free rein to undercut any financial transaction costs, go to WTO tariffs and do deals with the USA, China, India, etc. If nothing else this whole process has shown just how slow and cumbersome a 27 country bloc is in terms of doing deals and promoting trade. It’s just a large bureaucracy with 27 anchors attached to it........
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Cant pretend to know much about trade deals and tariffs etc but not sure it’s the Eu’s fault we voted to leave without any real plan.
 
JimmyJeffers said:
Cant pretend to know much about trade deals and tariffs etc but not sure it’s the Eu’s fault we voted to leave without any real plan.
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It doesn’t matter. When we cut the final cord we can do what we like, as fast as we like, without the bureaucracy and anchors of the rest of the EU. Terms such as Singapore/Hong Kong on Thames, accurately describes the ability of a country such as ours to do deals and trade so much faster than the EU. This is why they are desperate to tie us down to their sclerotic rules. They know we will outperform the EU, France knows it, Germany knows it, and this is what is scaring the crap out of them. If they do not sort out a deal we should just cut and run. Our economy is stronger than theirs and the rest of the world will willingly step into the shoes of the Eu’s trade with the U.K....
 
JimmyJeffers said:
Cant pretend to know much about trade deals and tariffs etc but not sure it’s the Eu’s fault we voted to leave without any real plan.
Click to expand...

Of the 430k businesses in the UK that export, each can expect to pick up an additional £80k of costs in tariffs alone.

We trade currently from inside the EU, so any agreements would end and we would essentially have to start negotiations with each country. If we wanted to access the 27 EU countries, we would have to meet EU standards.

I highly doubt they would be able to negotiate with any country until the EU part is done either way, so stalemate until a decision is done.

Then, business would need to begin readying itself for export, training needs to take place, no doubt the port services will need expanding.

Currently the transport market is very competitive, keeping supply chain costs low. A switch to trade by boat rather than road will see a shift from competitive to captive. Each container cant hold as much stock as a lorry, so there will be a higher cost per pallet. Container supply is very volatile and delays are a lot more costly.

WTO is a great line to throw but no-one in their right mind would openly say it's good, it really isn't. If were ok, then why even negotiate deals. Simply put, the winners are the government, the losers are the consumer.
 
bluejim95 said:
Of the 430k businesses in the UK that export, each can expect to pick up an additional £80k of costs in tariffs alone.

We trade currently from inside the EU, so any agreements would end and we would essentially have to start negotiations with each country. If we wanted to access the 27 EU countries, we would have to meet EU standards.

I highly doubt they would be able to negotiate with any country until the EU part is done either way, so stalemate until a decision is done.

Then, business would need to begin readying itself for export, training needs to take place, no doubt the port services will need expanding.

Currently the transport market is very competitive, keeping supply chain costs low. A switch to trade by boat rather than road will see a shift from competitive to captive. Each container cant hold as much stock as a lorry, so there will be a higher cost per pallet. Container supply is very volatile and delays are a lot more costly.

WTO is a great line to throw but no-one in their right mind would openly say it's good, it really isn't. If were ok, then why even negotiate deals. Simply put, the winners are the government, the losers are the consumer.
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And our import tariffs will grossly outnumber our export tariffs with the EU, giving the U.K. a massive tariff positive balance, which we can use as we see fit......
 
peteblue said:
It doesn’t matter. When we cut the final cord we can do what we like, as fast as we like, without the bureaucracy and anchors of the rest of the EU. Terms such as Singapore/Hong Kong on Thames, accurately describes the ability of a country such as ours to do deals and trade so much faster than the EU. This is why they are desperate to tie us down to their sclerotic rules. They know we will outperform the EU, France knows it, Germany knows it, and this is what is scaring the crap out of them. If they do not sort out a deal we should just cut and run. Our economy is stronger than theirs and the rest of the world will willingly step into the shoes of the Eu’s trade with the U.K....
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I'm sorry, there will never be a situation where we can do what we like, when we like. It's a very Brexit trait to assume we can have our cake and eat it.

To strike a deal with another country simply opens the door to demands and standards of said country. Compromise will always be needed, the complexity will rise with the cost. For example, given the currently coronavirus, would you be happy to ship chicken in from China? Do you align with their food standards? How much testing them has to take place for us to be satisfied and who picks up that cost?
 
peteblue said:
And our import tariffs will grossly outnumber our export tariffs with the EU, giving the U.K. a massive tariff positive balance, which we can use as we see fit......
Click to expand...

Cake and eat it again. Sorry, but life isn't like that. If there is no deal, what's to stop them just selling it to one of the countries they already have a deal with, of which we wish to deal with, whilst we are stuck in a mess with no deals and high costs.

Putting tariffs on imported goods will just put people off, in fact to get countries on board, we will have to lessen the import tariffs, not increase them.

Just to state, currently with the EU, we dont pay any tariffs, so we're going from nothing to billions a year.
 
peteblue said:
Meanwhile, it looks like the transition period will end with No Deal. We may as well get used to it and prepare accordingly. The EU are doing cartwheels trying to explain why a deal can’t be done unless we follow their rules, without even once considering that perhaps they should follow our rules. It won’t be reconciled and we should just go our separate ways, remove our military from Europe, cut off military Intelligence, allow the City of London free rein to undercut any financial transaction costs, go to WTO tariffs and do deals with the USA, China, India, etc. If nothing else this whole process has shown just how slow and cumbersome a 27 country bloc is in terms of doing deals and promoting trade. It’s just a large bureaucracy with 27 anchors attached to it........
Click to expand...
i think there will be a deal, once the bluster has calmed down, we need it and so do they.
The EU will get put under increasing pressure from within as time goes by to cut the rhetoric and get it done , look at the economic figures coming out of the main players , they are not good and local political issues will come into play as time goes by. i expect a deal in the last few days to be done.
 
peteblue said:
Meanwhile, it looks like the transition period will end with No Deal. We may as well get used to it and prepare accordingly. The EU are doing cartwheels trying to explain why a deal can’t be done unless we follow their rules, without even once considering that perhaps they should follow our rules. It won’t be reconciled and we should just go our separate ways, remove our military from Europe, cut off military Intelligence, allow the City of London free rein to undercut any financial transaction costs, go to WTO tariffs and do deals with the USA, China, India, etc. If nothing else this whole process has shown just how slow and cumbersome a 27 country bloc is in terms of doing deals and promoting trade. It’s just a large bureaucracy with 27 anchors attached to it........
Click to expand...

Interesting point on financial services. Just to highlight that we sub a lot of work to India and the cheaper EU countries as UK employees cost too much to be competitive. What's to stop them just cutting the middle man?

And although you could argue new deals are slow, when you consider they were negotiating access to what was 28 markets, I could argue that actually the alignment makes that quick considering the size of the market on offer.

The 3 countries you state are probably the best examples. Massive cost for US trade, for sure we will have to give to get there... we'll be in their pocket for sure. China, well, see coronavirus as a good measure of why alignment is needed. And India has very low standards compared to ours. If you're happy with more expensive, lower quality goods, then yeah, it's all good.

I wish I could say more but I come from a standpoint where I have a few years experience in export. Now I produce the UK P&L for one of the worlds largest companies. I can confidently say, a no deal will mean we pay significantly more for those purchases.
 
peteblue said:
It doesn’t matter. When we cut the final cord we can do what we like, as fast as we like, without the bureaucracy and anchors of the rest of the EU. Terms such as Singapore/Hong Kong on Thames, accurately describes the ability of a country such as ours to do deals and trade so much faster than the EU. This is why they are desperate to tie us down to their sclerotic rules. They know we will outperform the EU, France knows it, Germany knows it, and this is what is scaring the crap out of them. If they do not sort out a deal we should just cut and run. Our economy is stronger than theirs and the rest of the world will willingly step into the shoes of the Eu’s trade with the U.K....
Click to expand...
o_O
 
bluejim95 said:
Cake and eat it again. Sorry, but life isn't like that. If there is no deal, what's to stop them just selling it to one of the countries they already have a deal with, of which we wish to deal with, whilst we are stuck in a mess with no deals and high costs.

Putting tariffs on imported goods will just put people off, in fact to get countries on board, we will have to lessen the import tariffs, not increase them.

Just to state, currently with the EU, we dont pay any tariffs, so we're going from nothing to billions a year.
Click to expand...

There is nothing to stop the EU selling whatever they want to other countries anyway, they are not forced by anyone to sell to us. Yet we are now their single biggest market.

We all know that we don’t currently pay tariffs with the EU, but we also happen to have a bigger trade base with the ROW (where tariffs are involved) than the EU, it’s growing, profitable, and the trade balance is in our favour....
 
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