Current Affairs EU In or Out

[gonetomorrow]

Nobody trusts the Prime Minister, even large parts of his own party.
What a state of affairs to come to in the cradle of democracy.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

Because we all now know more about the relevant issues as you conceeded earlier. The electorate is better informed now to make a decision.

Also, for true democracy, about 12% of Leave voters have died since May 2016 whilst the equivalent of 8% of new Remain voters are now old enough to vote. So the result needs to be tested.

Figures are approximate but close enough.

I don't like this way of calculating what "should" happen. Because based on simple arithmatic the exact same number (well the same split as the referendum result) of remain voters in that demographic have died too.

12% of Joey's fabled 17.4m would be 2.088 million people... Approx 500,000 people die in England each year, if we extrapolate by population that would add approx 70,000 for Scotland, Wales and NI. Unless the death rate has spiked dramatically in the last 3 years or only people who voted leave are dying then your maths are out by about 400,000 people.

I'm a remainer but inventing stats to suit an argument is why we're in this mess.

 

[Aberblue]

It was around 9 months, can't be bothered checking exactly, but honestly the problem wasn't that they waited too long - it's that they didn't wait long enough.

By triggering A50 early, we gave the EU all the cards, because we hadn't determined ourselves what we wanted.

You know the discussions we're having now, about how to leave? This should have all been done in the HoC long before A50 was triggered.

The sole reason we did it was political. Farage wanted it done the day after the referendum and just leave on no deal - that's the madness that forced the Tories hand.

As did Corbyn . . . . .

 

[Jebus_lives]

It's a bad deal, I hope it does not pass, no deal is the best deal, short term disruption for long term prosperity.

Can people not see how the EU will have to make good trade deals with us ASAP, look how they've opened up the negotiations right at the end when it was said they were always going to cave at the final hour, it's how they do their deals, squeeze and squeeze then give back a bit at the end to get the deal done.

Boris could have got more out of them as the DUP have said, he should have kept his powder dry a little longer.

It's literally the worst.

 

[edge]

It's impossible to know. But we could go through the whole rigmarole and end up in exactly the same situation. We could end up in a worse situation, if as I said a group of no-deal 'wreckers' from the BXP get in. If Johnson took his deal to the people and won a mandate for his specific terms then no matter the makeup of Parliament there would be huge pressure to pass it.

And if Johnson is so confident his deal is what the people want, why fear the ballot box?

This is mad thing about the current Leaver fetish for a GE to grant Johnson a mandate: any of their arguments could equally apply to a Peoples' Vote, but they don't dare accept that because of the chance of losing Brexit altogther, which shows how fragile and unsupported they realise their own specific Leave position is and that deep down they know they are trying to ram through something unpopular whilst claiming it as the 'will of the people'.



The pro-Brexit movement is an environmental issue? Do you think our brave group of business-focused deregulators like Raab and Patel are the real heroes the planet is crying out for?

The environment they live in day to day work play ,housing schools ect ,yes it is an issue
only one side running away from the ballot box as far as I can see.
Why have a people's vote when you can take no notice of the outcome ?
You don't get that option with a GE .
If the remain argument is so good what's the problem , easy win according to most peoples vote supporters.
I am voting labour anyway so not really a charge you can throw at me a deal at any cost, as in reality I will be voting against my Brexit views to stop Johnson.

 

[OnlyBlueWillDo]

Have been coming across this sadly already, like I have said in this thread I fear I am in a minority of leave voter that want Johnson out ,more than I want brexit.
Even met two who said they would vote Tory rather than Labour under Corbyn, does my head in, thought it was a wind up to get me going about Johnson but it wasn't they have no faith in politics anymore and the old lines are there to be crossed.
If it's like that around the country we are in very dangerous times.
Just hoping Johnson makes his normal balls up before an election.

Labour are going to get a massive kicking at the next election, Corbyn has been an anti-EU campaigner all his career, wanting to take back power off the EU.

He's a charlatan, with Keir starmer in his ear a staunch remainer, he's been told this is how you fight the Tories to win, so he's changed Labour into a remain party, turned his back on thousands of supporters who voted leave, and done a 180 on his own beliefs in order to try be PM.

Sooner Corbyn is gone the sooner Labour can genuinely think about winning an election again, when Starmer will probably be the next leader.

 

[OnlyBlueWillDo]

It's literally the worst.

If project fear run by all the remainers has brainwashed you it seems that way doesn't it.

 

[edge]

Labour are going to get a massive kicking at the next election, Corbyn has been a massive anti-EU campaigner all his career, wanting to take back power off the EU.

He's a charlatan, with Keir starmer in his ear a staunch remainer, he's been told this is how you fight the Tories to win, so he's changed Labour into a remain party, turned his back on thousands of supporters who voted leave, and done a 180 on his own beliefs in order to try be PM.

Sooner Corbyn is gone the sooner Labour can genuinely think about winning an election again, when Starmer will probably be the next leader.

I know were your coming from, hopefully people's fear of Johnson is bigger than that of Corbyn.
I want them to win but it's that feeling you go before any big game the blues play you want them to win but know in reality no matter how bad the other team has been playing,
You are going to be disappointed at the end of the day.

 

[Jebus_lives]

If project fear run by all the remainers has brainwashed you it seems that way doesn't it.

No it's definitely the worst; which is why it has consistently been assessed as such, billions have been spent on mitigating the risk and managing potential consequences, hundreds of hours have been spent since January preparing for the effects of it, the UK government and the EU have done everything they can to avoid it, parliament have voted for legislation to specifically stop it happening.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Labour are going to get a massive kicking at the next election, Corbyn has been an anti-EU campaigner all his career, wanting to take back power off the EU.

He's a charlatan, with Keir starmer in his ear a staunch remainer, he's been told this is how you fight the Tories to win, so he's changed Labour into a remain party, turned his back on thousands of supporters who voted leave, and done a 180 on his own beliefs in order to try be PM.

Sooner Corbyn is gone the sooner Labour can genuinely think about winning an election again, when Starmer will probably be the next leader.

Good wind up mate. Lolz

 

[PaulPowersTash]

Nobody trusts the Prime Minister, even large parts of his own party.
What a state of affairs to come to in the cradle of democracy.

You could easily say the same for Corbyn.

However, regardless if you are Tory or Labour. Leave or Remain it has to be said that Bercow
has been utterly & totally disgraceful during all of this and has brought shame to the position of
The Speaker. He has disrespected the position on every level and sadly brought politics to a new low,
and that takes some doing these days.

 

[Jebus_lives]

You could easily say the same for Corbyn.

However, regardless if you are Tory or Labour. Leave or Remain it has to be said that Bercow
has been utterly & totally disgraceful during all of this and has brought shame to the position of
The Speaker. He has disrespected the position on every level and sadly brought politics to a new low,
and that takes some doing these days.

Not even close.

 

[OnlyBlueWillDo]

I know were your coming from, hopefully people's fear of Johnson is bigger than that of Corbyn.
I want them to win but it's that feeling you go before any big game the blues play you want them to win but know in reality no matter how bad the other team has been playing,
You are going to be disappointed at the end of the day.

There are a lot of Labour leave voters out there that are going to vote Tory for the first time in their lives because they've seen Johnson trying to get brexit done, the only way to reduce that number is for Johnson's deal to pass this week in the commons.

Corbyn has alienated a massive amount of core Labour voters.

That's the reality, Labour are in for a hiding at the polls next time round.

 

[peteblue]

I’m a conspiracy theorist... I believe Johnson knows this won’t get through... he knows Farage will play to the Brexit gallery as usual and between them they’ve agreed to play it out this way so we get a GE... the leave vote will be split between bxt and Tory but these two bellends will already have agreed to come together to form a coalition and then leave with no deal... Farage gets his hard Brexit and Boris gets his paymasters a huge payday

Yet if they hadn’t voted for the amendment they could have voted for a deal. This has nothing to do with deal or no deal or a bad or a good deal, it’s about reversing the referendum result.....

 

[Xizor]

The environment they live in day to day work play ,housing schools ect ,yes it is an issue
only one side running away from the ballot box as far as I can see.
Why have a people's vote when you can take no notice of the outcome ?
You don't get that option with a GE .
If the remain argument is so good what's the problem , easy win according to most peoples vote supporters.
I am voting labour anyway so not really a charge you can throw at me a deal at any cost, as in reality I will be voting against my Brexit views to stop Johnson.

Ah right, I get it now. You aren't saying environment like 'Green' issue. You're just saying that people are likely to become Leavers over time? I disagree with that premise.

Which referendum have we had where they took no notice of the outcome? If you hadn't noticed, people have been trying to make the 2016 one work for over 3 years now when I'm sure we'd all agree the country would have been better served with the energy of government going into improving the day to day running of the country?

The fact is that the 2016 Leave vote didn't mean a specific thing, so now that there's a specific thing it can mean, why not let the people decided? Why is Johnson so 'FRIT' that his deal won't have popular support, even as he bashes the ears of MPs that those very same people 'just want Brexit done'?

Your position doesn't stack up mate, you can't accuse everyone else of being scared of democracy and shout down a movement for a vote.