Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Xizor]

Sooner have a GE and clear the air one way or the other,

How does a GE "clear the air", especially if it delivers a similar HoC makeup to the current one (or, can you imagine a small group of about 20 new BXP MPs voting down any deal because they demand their 'clean break'? That would really help resolve things...)

If Johnson is so convinced that "people just want to see Brexit done" and is sure that they want it done his way, then let him ask them. Throw it up there vs Remain and put an end to the political side of things. Then deal with the fallout in society (or let natual wastage take care of it over the next 20 years).

 

[Xizor]

the leave vote will be split between bxt and Tory but these two bellends will already have agreed to come together to form a coalition

Thing is, if they split each others vote then they could just end up with far fewer MPs and nowhere near enough numbers to govern together. They would have to entertain an electoral pact before the GE, but I'm sceptical of that because Farage is now demanding no deal, and Johnson has just negotiated a deal. How much of an own goal would it be to immediately abandon the deal you just tried to get through the HoC? Isn't that a massive admission it's terrible?

There's also an issue of pride. Does Johnson want to go down in history as the only Tory leader in a weak enough position to beg a party with no MPs for help in a GE?

 

[Kurt.]

Thing is, if they split each others vote then they could just end up with far fewer MPs and nowhere near enough numbers to govern together. They would have to entertain an electoral pact before the GE, but I'm sceptical of that because Farage is now demanding no deal, and Johnson has just negotiated a deal. How much of an own goal would it be to immediately abandon the deal you just tried to get through the HoC? Isn't that a massive admission it's terrible?

There's also an issue of pride. Does Johnson want to go down in history as the only Tory leader in a weak enough position to beg a party with no MPs for help in a GE?

I hear what you’re saying but I think it’s gone way past party politics for most leave voters who wouldn’t care less about Johnson’s actions as long as they get the leave so badly crave unfortunately.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Good summary of where the hell we are with things on Sky News:

Sky News: Brexit: It is very unlikely that the PM will get his way today - here's why http://news.sky.com/story/brexit-a-delay-could-get-boris-johnson-the-election-he-craves-11840965

And little of this.

 

[spectateur]

I’m a conspiracy theorist... I believe Johnson knows this won’t get through... he knows Farage will play to the Brexit gallery as usual and between them they’ve agreed to play it out this way so we get a GE... the leave vote will be split between bxt and Tory but these two bellends will already have agreed to come together to form a coalition and then leave with no deal... Farage gets his hard Brexit and Boris gets his paymasters a huge payday

That's an enxtremely frightening scenario.

 

[edge]

All he needs to do is guarantee that our environment/worker/ag. standards will not fall below the eu's...

He could but would anybody believe him?
If he did it anyway what's stopping the voters in the UK getting rid of him anyway not really a vote winner to lower the environmental standards or the majority of voters rights, he and his party wouldn't say past one term in office.
The power mad bell will want more than that.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

I still haven't got a clue how this is all going to pan out.

 

[edge]

How does a GE "clear the air", especially if it delivers a similar HoC makeup to the current one (or, can you imagine a small group of about 20 new BXP MPs voting down any deal because they demand their 'clean break'? That would really help resolve things...)

If Johnson is so convinced that "people just want to see Brexit done" and is sure that they want it done his way, then let him ask them. Throw it up there vs Remain and put an end to the political side of things. Then deal with the fallout in society (or let natual wastage take care of it over the next 20 years).

Who is to say it will be a parliament made up like it is now after an election , why are people scared to put there views to the vote , tories ,brexit leavers the rest stay if they are so confident in there argument why fear the ballot box.
As for leavers dying off , if nothing is done about the environment that coursed the vote they will over time be replaced by others from the same sections of society so not likely a problem yhat will disappear six foot under despite what some may wish.

 

[orchard]

He could but would anybody believe him?
If he did it anyway what's stopping the voters in the UK getting rid of him anyway not really a vote winner to lower the environmental standards or the majority of voters rights, he and his party wouldn't say past one term in office.
The power mad bell will want more than that.

And that is the reason Brexit continues to fail in the Commons. Hubris.

 

[edge]

I hear what you’re saying but I think it’s gone way past party politics for most leave voters who wouldn’t care less about Johnson’s actions as long as they get the leave so badly crave unfortunately.

Have been coming across this sadly already, like I have said in this thread I fear I am in a minority of leave voter that want Johnson out ,more than I want brexit.
Even met two who said they would vote Tory rather than Labour under Corbyn, does my head in, thought it was a wind up to get me going about Johnson but it wasn't they have no faith in politics anymore and the old lines are there to be crossed.
If it's like that around the country we are in very dangerous times.
Just hoping Johnson makes his normal balls up before an election.

 

[edge]

I still haven't got a clue how this is all going to pan out.

No one has mate, delusional if they say they know.

 

[Khalekan]

Amber Rudd is regarded by many as being the acceptable face of 21st century Toryism.

Yet here she is, brazenly, shamelessly admitting that Johnson’s deal will hit our economy hard......but nonetheless she will vote for it.

 

[orchard]

Have been coming across this sadly already, like I have said in this thread I fear I am in a minority of leave voter that want Johnson out ,more than I want brexit.
Even met two who said they would vote Tory rather than Labour under Corbyn, does my head in, thought it was a wind up to get me going about Johnson but it wasn't they have no faith in politics anymore and the old lines are there to be crossed.
If it's like that around the country we are in very dangerous times.
Just hoping Johnson makes his normal balls up before an election.

Don't lose faith, a few local leavers around here have now realised what sort of brexit the Tories want.

 

[Xizor]

Who is to say it will be a parliament made up like it is now after an election , why are people scared to put there views to the vote , tories ,brexit leavers the rest stay if they are so confident in there argument why fear the ballot box.

It's impossible to know. But we could go through the whole rigmarole and end up in exactly the same situation. We could end up in a worse situation, if as I said a group of no-deal 'wreckers' from the BXP get in. If Johnson took his deal to the people and won a mandate for his specific terms then no matter the makeup of Parliament there would be huge pressure to pass it.

And if Johnson is so confident his deal is what the people want, why fear the ballot box?

This is mad thing about the current Leaver fetish for a GE to grant Johnson a mandate: any of their arguments could equally apply to a Peoples' Vote, but they don't dare accept that because of the chance of losing Brexit altogther, which shows how fragile and unsupported they realise their own specific Leave position is and that deep down they know they are trying to ram through something unpopular whilst claiming it as the 'will of the people'.

As for leavers dying off , if nothing is done about the environment that coursed the vote they will over time be replaced by others from the same sections of society so not likely a problem yhat will disappear six foot under despite what some may wish.

The pro-Brexit movement is an environmental issue? Do you think our brave group of business-focused deregulators like Raab and Patel are the real heroes the planet is crying out for?

 

[OnlyBlueWillDo]

I hear what you’re saying but I think it’s gone way past party politics for most leave voters who wouldn’t care less about Johnson’s actions as long as they get the leave so badly crave unfortunately.

It's a bad deal, I hope it does not pass, no deal is the best deal, short term disruption for long term prosperity.

Can people not see how the EU will have to make good trade deals with us ASAP, look how they've opened up the negotiations right at the end when it was said they were always going to cave at the final hour, it's how they do their deals, squeeze and squeeze then give back a bit at the end to get the deal done.

Boris could have got more out of them as the DUP have said, he should have kept his powder dry a little longer.