Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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As has been pointing out hundreds of times, we could have left via May's withdrawal agreement, but you didn't want to. You only value democracy when it's what you want.


Quite how, Brexiteers console themselves by discussing Mays deal with such renewed vigour is joy to behold. Custom Union in the Irish sea, NI remains in EU, be it with some flippy floppy meaningless legal sentence.
 
Telegraph now reporting that DUP has agreed the customs proposals that are suggested but is holding out for Stormont consent. It wants to be able to block economic alignment with EU through Stormont.

The DUP just want two things - they want wording that they can spin as saying that Northern Ireland remains fully in the UK, even though it clearly isn't, and they want - more importantly - a bribe.
 
It won't get through Parliament in any event. But it's genuinely sad to see people promised something they thought would be glorious and return us to empire, now complicit in possibly the break up the union and accepting any old muck deal because of a mutual embarrassment factor of Johnson needing to save face and those pinning their hopes on him having to do the same, lest they look like Remainers have won or give any sort of impression that this was not all part of the master plan.

As much as leave 'won the vote' they have very much lost the subsequent debate. Nobody is talking about 'clean break' Brexit anymore after Yellowhammer, nobody is talking about Norway+, nobody is talking about 'not leaving the single market... in fact nobody is actually throwing up any positives anymore as they've all been categorically disproved - including the guff about Sovereignty.

All anybody is now championing is 'people want Brexit done' which is sounding more and more desperate by the day. It will sound worse when the PM has to go back to the EU to request an extension and we are left to the EU to determine if that is acceptable.
I agree. The only one so far to pipe up and tell it like it is (from the perspective of the hardline Brexiteers) is Owen Patterson. He called it 'absurd'.

Johnson has bent over to get this far and will have to bend over further still if his capitiulation is to satisfy the EU.

He makes Theresa May look like a shrewd stateswoman.
 
Apparently, DUP going back to No.10 this afternoon for more meaningful dialogue....


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Think it will be the end of the week before we see the DUP throw their weight behind the deal.

But it'll be a good friday agreement.
 
The Guardian:


DUP Brexit spokesman Sammy Wilson spells out in detail his party's objections to PM's plan
Sammy Wilson, the DUP’s Brexit spokesman, used his questions to Stephen Barclay, the Brexit secretary, in the Brexit committee hearing to spell out in some details the DUP’s objections to the plan for a replacement to the backstop being negotiated by the UK and the EU.
He did not say his party would oppose the plan (the full details of which have yet to be revealed) in all circumstances. But he sounded sceptical, particularly on the latest thinking on “consent”. (Some commentary has implied that the most serious problems relate to customs, but Wilson’s questioning implied consent could turn out to be more of a stumbling block.)
Here are the key points Wilson made.
  • Wilson claimed that removing what was seen as the DUP veto over the arrangements would breach the Good Friday agreement (or the Belfast agreement, as unionists like Wilson call it). The Northern Ireland assembly has a “petition of concern” process that means key decisions have to have significant support from both unionists and nationalists in the assembly. In practice, this means the DUP and Sinn Fein both get a veto. Sinn Fein wants Northern Ireland to be aligned with Ireland and the EU, and so in practice, when Boris Johnson put forward double-majority consent plans in his paper (pdf) earlier this month, he was proposing a DUP veto. The Irish government and the non-unionist parties in Northern Ireland said this was unacceptable, and Johnson is now said to be looking at another “consent” mechanism - perhaps a simple majority in the assembly. Wilson said this would be contrary to the Good Friday agreement, because the agreement includes the principle of “cross-community consent”. He said abandoning the current plan (ie, the one giving the DUP a veto) would be:
Not just against the spirit of the [Good Friday] agreement, but it is explicitly against the terms of the agreement.
Wilson repeatedly asked for an assurance that the government would not consent mechanism involving just a simple majority in the assembly. And he told Barclay:
What we are told time and time again in this committee [is that the Good Friday agreement] is an internationally binding agreement which, very clearly - in fact, in very explicit and detailed terms - sets out how cross-community support has to be measured in the the assembly. So all I want to hear from you today are that the terms of the Belfast agreement ... will be the terms on which consent for opting into arrangements which diminish the powers of the Northern Ireland assembly, which will treat Northern Ireland differently, to a certain extent, from the rest of the United Kingdom, that that consent by sought on the basis of the agreement.
Barclay failed to give Wilson the assurance that he wanted. He just said the government was committed to the Good Friday agreement.
  • Wilson said the plan being considered by the government would “diminish” the powers of the Northern Ireland assembly.(See quote above.) He made this point even though the assembly has been suspended for almost three years.
  • He said he hoped the government was not planning to keep Northern Ireland in the EU customs union for practical purposes. Talking about this idea, he said:
I hope that first of all the government is not contemplating that.
This sounded like a ritual objection. Everyone knows that is exactly what the government is now considering.
  • He quoted figures saying including Northern Ireland in the EU customs union for practical purposes could cost Northern Irish businesses an extra £500m.
  • He signalled that Northern Ireland businesses would expect compensation for these extra costs. Barclay said the government was planning a new deal for Northern Ireland, but that did not seem to satisfy Wilson.
  • Wilson said he was worried EU state aid rules could prevent compensation being paid in these circumstances. He said:
One of the suggestions that has been made is that, if there are additional costs, Northern Ireland could be compensated for those additional costs. If we sign up to abiding by some EU regulations, then state aid rules would apply and support could not be given to businesses which were caught with those additional costs.
Barclay did not specifically address this point, although he said the government wanted a new deal for Northern Ireland.
  • Wilson demanded details of exactly what new infrastructure would be needed for imposing customs checks on goods going from Britain to Northern Ireland would work. Barclay said he could not give details at this point.
Consent not so much as customs arrangements being the stumbling block...although the report then underlines that it IS also customs arrrangements and financial compensation for NI.

These divvies were always going to be left holding the baby.
 
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