spectateur
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So obvious. So very true.
Current Affairs EU In or Out
- Thread starter micknick
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So obvious. So very true.
NilSatisOptimum
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Farage is not saying much but he is repeating his non aggressive election pact, his trumpets in the media Jon Gaunt etc, are having a head wobble and frothing about the annexation of Northern Ireland.
orly
Please check with me for Blammo criteria
Depends. I think Jezza can allow a free vote - makes him look very statesmanlike and constructive. He then gets onto much more favourable ground (domestic policy) in an election
They have to. They can't be responsible for it breaking down by just throwing up a brick wall and refusing to talk.
Their red lines won't change though, as it's an existential matter for them. The challenge is getting a deal together that doesn't have the backstop, or they can at the very least spin as not the backstop.
This is now the narrative - the annexation of Northern Ireland by Eire is desirable.
How the DUP and by extension the ERG, as unionists, can support this is unbelievable.
They are the Conservative and Unionist Party. They're literally going to be giving up their own reason for being to get Brexit over the line in some form.
spectateur
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If this is allowed to happen, if the people of the six counties get what they voted for - to remain in the EU, then the Scots will soon be hammering on the wall for the same treatment. The where does the Union stand?
It's finished surely. There'll be a Border Poll in Ireland imminently and the Scots will ask and surely get the second referendum. If they're not allowed the same treatment as Northern Ireland, they'll surely vote to leave. They'd be daft to want to remain in the UK at this point.
I can't see how the UK survives 10 years after Brexit if it's done like this.
But we'll have blue passports so it's fine.
The DUP were warned about the perils of throwing their weight behind Brexit.
But as ever, they are blinded by bigotry.
I bet they regret it now.
As for the narrative and the motives.....even if they are doing this for the wrong reasons, it will bring about the right result.
Once the fiction is dropped that northern Ireland is the same as northern England than all manner of amicable solutions are possible.
I'm nothing like knowledgeable on anything Irish, but surely if this pushes the north back towards the south, that will reignite many of the troubles that were caused by people not wanting that to happen?
There's no solution that works for Ireland beyond the Good Friday Agreement. That was a legit political miracle, everything fell into place at the right time.
I think people genuinely don't appreciate what that did. It's like it's been lost to annals of time in England. Not a big deal, a fuss over nothing. Despite, you know, mainland bombings and so on.
sbbefc
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The only way I see a deal happening is a NI only backstop. This can be achieved by putting it to a public vote in NI. Id be surprised if it didn't pass a public vote as im sure most people in NI would like to have the best of both worlds.
Ultimately I just get the feeling now that most people have lost interest in this farce.
Ultimately I just get the feeling now that most people have lost interest in this farce.
Whatever outcome arises from Brexit you have to say it all brings challenges to the Conservatives that Labour will relish.
I was astonished at their conference, they have essentially abandoned any sort of policy discussion beyond "get Brexit done". Best case scenario you achieve that and get it done (against the odds) and you then have a real challenge keeping those who "lent" them a vote at the last election. See UKIP in 2017, once Brexit was done there was a collapse in their support. It won't be as severe as that, but the same dynamics at play. You also have to factor in the 35% or so of remain conservatives voters will be leaving them, and potentially in a tactical manner.
As for Labour they really have to get the conversation off Brexit. Their domestic agenda is very populist and popular. The Conservatives have abandoned attacking the pledges made as unrealistic (a big mistake). A focussed campaign, with a large membership base and the likelihood of media scrutiny on all things other than their Brexit position will help them.
You cans see why Labour want an election October 31st. The above is very much a best case scenario for Johnson. If he doesn't deliver Brexit, or delivers a heavily watered down compromise I suspect the leave voters will abandon ship and while it's hard to see them holding remain voters given how far they are down the rabbit hole
Symbolically you are putting a border in the Irish sea, but practically people won't see the borders in quite the same way. Whether the Unionist community will take to arms in quite the same way I am not sure.
Charlie Sweet
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Not sure mate to be honest!
Ref EU and Nato - I honestly dont see how you can say the latter has solely ensure world peace when the only bit of the world that has remained largely conflict free for the last 75 years (Former Yugoslavia major exception) is Europe. And for that I'd give much greater credit to the EU.
Separately surely Trump is a lot worse than Nixon?!
The problem you have, is in essence they have ceased to be the Conservative and Unionist party for a long time. The argument is too difficult to make and provides very little capital/gains in key areas now. It's not a vote winner. And that is what matters to a political party, who increasingly will bend every rule, seemingly break multiple rules, lie to Parliament, lie to the monarch etc in order to maintain their own power base.
In Scotland they have stoked the fires of independence. In 2014 they promised them a whole range of proposals and guarantees if they stayed. They were ignored. They then ignored the will of the 2015 election in Scotland (which as explicitly anti-austerity) and ignored the vote in Scotland (where every single constituency voted to remain). What you have is a cabal of largely southern English Mp's who believe the myth that they create all the wealth so only their view matters.
It comes as no surprise NI will be sold out. The preservation of their rule, if only for another few months will trump the sacrifices made by the unionist community in Ireland every day of the week.
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