Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Khalekan]

Just seen that progress has been made in negotiations with Varadkar (is he even Irish with that sort of name?TM @peteblue) and Johnson.

Johnson won't accept a separate Northern Ireland. But the EU don't want a hard border and neither do NI and Ireland. Nothing that Johnson has so far proposed is anything other than a hard border (in spite of his rhetoric).

So presumably we are going to have the Theresa May 'Customs Partnership' rebadged as a 'victory for Boris'.

Was always going to be the case

 

[Khalekan]

Interesting take on todays talks from Preston - who sees it as strategy from Johnson to avoid facing a showdown within his own party.

Robert Peston: Has Dublin rescued Boris Johnson?

I pass on, with little confidence or real understanding, that Boris Johnson seems to believe that Leo Varadkar and Dublin have lessened their objections of principle to his Brexit offer. Maybe both sides are moving in a significant way. We'll see.

www.itv.com

I must say I take little notice of what Peston says, Dave.

He has become little more than a mouthpiece for Mr. Dominic Cummings a.k.a. “Downing Street sources”.

 

[edge]

The ‘Remain coalition’ do not want a deal. They do not want a GE. They will play games in Parliament to try to force another referendum......

all been over to the EU last few weeks getting there orders , before coming back to waste yet more time, Berscow, Swinson ect just wearing the masses down till they get their way.
Cant be bothered really as i am totally focused on hoping Johnson doesn't get in,
then can resume my anti EU feelings.
it's going to be a mess whatever they come up with, bet it ends up doing both sides heads in.

 

[Eggs]

Straws in the wind on this 'deal', but it looks from the bits and pieces coming out that the DUP are going to be looking at accepting a form of words that merely claims they are now still part of the UK customs union but will, in fact, have regulatory alignment with the EU - and that is a 'blood red line' they swore never to step over. And Julian Smith the Sec of State for NI is handing out interviews talking down the extent of consent / veto power NI will have on any deal.

The ERG have now gone into their May-era position of stating that they'd back a deal ONLY IF the DUP are ok with it....oh, and it's now being reported that even with a possible deal to be negotiated, an extension will be forced on Johnson.


I bet those Barclay / Barnier talks go nowhere this morning.

...much of the electorate won’t be bothered by the nuts & bolts, they won’t be bothered by the hypocrisy. Johnson will be seen to have done a deal where others failed. Parliament will still be a sticking point, but never underestimate this bunch of manipulating Tory’s.

5 more years.

 

[edge]

...much of the electorate won’t be bothered by the nuts & bolts, they won’t be bothered by the hypocrisy. Johnson will be seen to have done a deal where others failed. Parliament will still be a sticking point, but never underestimate this bunch of manipulating Tory’s.

5 more years.

To be honest Eggs , most people just want it over with, if he pulls something off that can end it and keep the brexit party at bay , i unfortunately think your correct.

 

[Khalekan]

all been over to the EU last few weeks getting there orders , before coming back to waste yet more time, Berscow, Swinson ect just wearing the masses down till they get their way.
Cant be bothered really as i am totally focused on hoping Johnson doesn't get in,
then can resume my anti EU feelings.
it's going to be a mess whatever they come up with, bet it ends up doing both sides heads in.

That is the dilemma fir Labour leavers, edge.

Johnson is banking on Labour leave voters switching to the Tories.

But even the most ardent Brexiters I know say that they will not vote for the modt right wing Tory government in living memory....and most of us will still remember the Thatcher government.

Johnson is in for a rude awakening if he takes northern Labour leave voters for granted.

 

[edge]

That is the dilemma fir Labour leavers, edge.

Johnson is banking on Labour leave voters switching to the Tories.

But even the most ardent Brexiters I know say that they will not vote for the modt right wing Tory government in living memory....and most of us will still remember the Thatcher government.

Johnson is in for a rude awakening if he takes northern Labour leave voters for granted.

They can stay fully in the EU as far as i am concerned, rather than have the prospect of him as pm, as i have said before if its a half cobbled together deal like the May one, i would sooner stay a full member.
I have been fighting a battle with fellow leavers in work ect over this, unfortunately a few have said they would sooner vote Tory than back Labour under corbyn, most have said its the Brexit party they will vote for, wish they would look at the wider picture and wake up to the evil this Man is.

 

[davek]

I must say I take little notice of what Peston says, Dave.

He has become little more than a mouthpiece for Mr. Dominic Cummings a.k.a. “Downing Street sources”.

I dont like myself. Ex-Spectator, tightly involved with the Tories and Blairites.

I'd say he's useful in getting the likely attitude of the ERG lot. He's obviously connected there.

I think by far and away the best political commentator in the MSM is Gary Gibbon of CH4 News; he gets close to, but doesn't seem infected by, the players he covers.

 

[davek]

...much of the electorate won’t be bothered by the nuts & bolts, they won’t be bothered by the hypocrisy. Johnson will be seen to have done a deal where others failed. Parliament will still be a sticking point, but never underestimate this bunch of manipulating Tory’s.

5 more years.

That's besides the point (if any of that were true, btw).

The point I'm making is the nature of the 'deal' being contemplated here. Winners / losers.

 

[abelard]

...much of the electorate won’t be bothered by the nuts & bolts, they won’t be bothered by the hypocrisy. Johnson will be seen to have done a deal where others failed. Parliament will still be a sticking point, but never underestimate this bunch of manipulating Tory’s.

5 more years.

Or, with Brexit out of the way, there would no longer be any conceivable reason for Labour Leavers to vote Tory - and not just your garden variety Tory but Boris Johnson.

 

[Bluerover]

....and Sunderland voted to leave.

 

[Joey66]

They can stay fully in the EU as far as i am concerned, rather than have the prospect of him as pm, as i have said before if its a half cobbled together deal like the May one, i would sooner stay a full member.
I have been fighting a battle with fellow leavers in work ect over this, unfortunately a few have said they would sooner vote Tory than back Labour under corbyn, most have said its the Brexit party they will vote for, wish they would look at the wider picture and wake up to the evil this Man is.

Your right if Brexit is delivered, I will stay at home job done......can't vote for Corbyn sorry but just can't voted for Millaband , but cannnot see him ruin the economy.....

 

[Khalekan]

Or, with Brexit out of the way, there would no longer be any conceivable reason for Labour Leavers to vote Tory - and not just your garden variety Tory but Boris Johnson.

This is what I keep saying.

Why would Johnson going to the country proclaiming he is “the man who got Brexit done” be a plus for him outside of Tory Brexiters?

Tory Remainers will not be impressed by such triumphalism and will flock to the LibDems in droves.

And as you say, with Brexit out the way why on earth would any Labour voter give his or her vote to that shower currently sat on the Tory front bench?

 

[Eggs]

Or, with Brexit out of the way, there would no longer be any conceivable reason for Labour Leavers to vote Tory - and not just your garden variety Tory but Boris Johnson.

....sadly, Labour needs more than Labour voters who voted leave. Corbyn needs people who voted Tory last time. That’s why it’s difficult to see a Momentum driven Labour winning. I think their best chance is actually a ‘no deal’ Brexit being manipulated through and the country being paralysed.

 

[Khalekan]

....sadly, Labour needs more than Labour voters who voted leave. Corbyn needs people who voted Tory last time. That’s why it’s difficult to see a Momentum driven Labour winning. I think their best chance is actually a ‘no deal’ Brexit being manipulated through and the country being paralysed.

I find it impossible to see Labour winning an election outright again in my lifetime, given the party’s demise in Scotland.

I think the best we can hope for is a Labour/SNP coalition.

(having said that.....five years of a Johnson uber right wing government run riot with post Brexit austerity might lead to a Labour landslide in 2024/25)