Current Affairs EU In or Out
- Thread starter micknick
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peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
It means starting again. Working out our own problems. Developing our own relationships and trade. Doing whatever it is that we want. Being independent. What more do you want from life......
Foot Long Hot Dog
Player Valuation: A packet of pork scratchings
It actually means chucking 759 trade related treaties in the skip, and losing our right as citizens, to live and work freely in 27 other countries.
All because people have been groomed into believing that an organisation that we were a key and leading member of, was somehow working against our best interests, and that they inflicted laws on us that we had no say in. We want to take back control of never lost Sovereignty and rid ourselves of laws that we objected to, that no one can name.
The whole thing is an utter nonsense, driven by baby boomers & xenophobia.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
State of the Nation: my new polling on the political landscape and the battle lines for the next election - Lord Ashcroft Polls
The Conservative Party conference that opens today takes place at a more volatile and unpredictable time than any previous gathering I can remember. My new research, including an 8,000-sample poll, helps to make sense of what is going on by showing what the voters themselves make of the...
lordashcroftpolls.com
Interesting poll results there from the latest Lord Ashcroft poll off a big sample of 8,000.
This, for me, is the pick of it (or most encouraging):
Dealing with Brexit in the right way topped the list of the most important issues facing the country as a whole, with 62% naming it among the top three. It was followed by the NHS (53%), crime and the economy (both 25%), then immigration and the environment and climate change (both 21%). However, when we asked what mattered most to people themselves and their families, Brexit fell to third place, behind the cost of living and the NHS. Only four in ten named Brexit among their top three priorities in this respect.
And this graph:
There's plenty of negative stuff for the LP in that report, but that demotion for individuals and their families of the Brexit issue vis-a-vis the NHS and cost of living (plus the perception of parties held) will only get stronger in the teeth of a month long election campaign. I expect Brexit to be important but not the deciding factor in how people vote. Put another way: "A Boris Johnson is for 5 years, not just for Christmas".
Interesting that he says Great Britain rather than United Kingdom. Good way to get Northern Ireland on board with his absolute nonsense. How are these people representing us?!
I don’t know why I’m asking this as I know what the response will be. But what can’t we do that we “want to do”? That will actually improve the country. Our own relationships will be so much worse than our collective relationships through the EU.
State of the Nation: my new polling on the political landscape and the battle lines for the next election - Lord Ashcroft Polls
The Conservative Party conference that opens today takes place at a more volatile and unpredictable time than any previous gathering I can remember. My new research, including an 8,000-sample poll, helps to make sense of what is going on by showing what the voters themselves make of the...
Interesting poll results there from the latest Lord Ashcroft poll off a big sample of 8,000.
This, for me, is the pick of it (or most encouraging):
Dealing with Brexit in the right way topped the list of the most important issues facing the country as a whole, with 62% naming it among the top three. It was followed by the NHS (53%), crime and the economy (both 25%), then immigration and the environment and climate change (both 21%). However, when we asked what mattered most to people themselves and their families, Brexit fell to third place, behind the cost of living and the NHS. Only four in ten named Brexit among their top three priorities in this respect.
And this graph:
There's plenty of negative stuff for the LP in that report, but that demotion for individuals and their families of the Brexit issue vis-a-vis the NHS and cost of living (plus the perception of parties held) will only get stronger in the teeth of a month long election campaign. I expect Brexit to be important but not the deciding factor in how people vote. Put another way: "A Boris Johnson is for 5 years, not just for Christmas".
That's not very good for Labour. If you look carefully, the areas they score well in are emotive, simple questions - "fairness", "heart in right place" and so on. In short, that's clearly the young vote. 2017 saw a 25 year high in the young vote, an increase of 16% on 2016 as they were enthused by Corbyn. And they still lost.
Here's your problem - with a leader not being decisive on Brexit, Labour will lose a portion of those votes to a resurgent Lib Dems who have a clear message.
Whereas in terms of practicality - "make decisions", "right priorities", "competent" - as in the things people actually vote for above the age of around 25-30 - they get thrashed. Yes, the Brexit Party may take some votes from the Tories, but with Johnson being so definitive on Brexit now, he'll just argue that Farage is aiming to do just what he's doing now and will face the same legal issues in parliament as he does, and a vote for Farage takes away the chances of the Tories - an established party - getting a majority and delivering Brexit. Which is actually completely true.
What it does demonstrate plainly is that we need a second referendum to sort out Brexit before a General Election, because the poll is 100% right in that regard - people want a GE to be about much more than Brexit. Whatever way a referendum went, a Labour government would be infinitely more likely if Brexit was resolved first, as they are terribly weak on that subject due to the ambiguity of Corbyn's position and his general unwillingness to lead an overtly remain party as a closet Brexiteer.
summerisle
The rain, it raineth every day
Another lie.
What would happen if just say there was a Referendum and Remain won.
Followed by a General Election that Labour win.
Article 50 was revoked and the status quo is maintained.
(which is a series of events that I fervently hope comes to pass BTW)
But.
Five years or ten years or fifteen later the Tories are returned to power having campaigned with another go at Brexit in their manifesto.
(a sequence of events I think is a distinct possibility)
Are we doomed to rinse and repeat this Brexit mayhem every time the government of this country changes hands?
Or can the revocation of Article 50 be set in stone so deep that our children and grandchildren will not have to go through this nightmare in the years to come?
Chewbacca
Player Valuation: £35m
Friends
Any second referendum would in my eyes be immediately honoured. As in the referendum itself would have a leave date drawn in and we leave on no deal if needs be on that date. It'd be that cut and dry.
The follow up election wouldn't be about Brexit - it'd be about leading us now Brexit has or hasn't happened.
As for whether this will ever go away, of course it won't, no matter what happens. But the key is if Europe ever try to fundamentally change our relationship, we get a referendum automatically on it anyway to decide if we want to go that way.
European Union Act 2011 - Wikipedia
This is actually the irony of the whole situation - for those who don't want European Armies and federal united states of Europe and all that nonsense, the easiest way to do it now is to stay in and have the veto, because the 'shock' of Brexit would be enough to curtail EU 'plans' to be so radical for decades, as they'll know at the very least Britain won't have anything to do with it.
Of course, those plans don't exist anyway beyond being pie in the sky aspiration by extreme EU politicians, same as "Turkey are joining and we'll be swamped with those immigrants", but I'm tired of telling the Brexiteers facts and being ignored at this point, so just let them believe what they want for now.
Disgruntledgoat
Player Valuation: £50m
Erm… To not have to start again and enjoy the benefits of the current trade deals and relationships we have. And that we have had whilst still, mysteriously, being independent?
Disgruntledgoat
Player Valuation: £50m
There is already a de facto EU plus US plus strategic allies army... It's called NATO and has quite happily kept the peace across Europe for 70 years. Weird how people would use that as an argument in favour of Brexit.
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