If he wanted to 'game' the Benn Act, given he is legally compelled to only withdraw or modify the extension if he gets a deal, he could do it on the basis that the act doesn't specify the exact nature of the deal. He could in theory pretend to accept the original Theresa May Withdrawal Agreement for a few hours, for example. He wouldn't have to get it by parliament or even the EU - he could just present it as the casus belli for withdrawing the extension request.
I'm not saying it'd be sensible, but since when has Boris Johnson been sensible?
We're talking about it specifically in the context of Johnson saying he will respect the law in relation to the Benn Act but that we're still leaving on the 31st.
So he either gets a deal, breaks the law, or has a loophole.
We're discussing, if it is the latter, how that could possibly happen.
If he wanted to 'game' the Benn Act, given he is legally compelled to only withdraw or modify the extension if he gets a deal, he could do it on the basis that the act doesn't specify the exact nature of the deal. He could in theory pretend to accept the original Theresa May Withdrawal Agreement for a few hours, for example. He wouldn't have to get it by parliament or even the EU - he could just present it as the casus belli for withdrawing the extension request.
I'm not saying it'd be sensible, but since when has Boris Johnson been sensible?
There's a reason Laura K keeps saying "will you ask for an extension?"; he won't be asking, it's already upon him. And it won't be January 2020 either, it is going to be loooooooong, the Commission et al. have him where they want him, ready to help batten down the hatches for the global recession. It might even be the as long as a full implementation period (with the capped two years of that on top of what's left).
All we are seeing in HoP now is GE posturing. The actual Exit stuff? Simply fuel for the engines.
We're talking about it specifically in the context of Johnson saying he will respect the law in relation to the Benn Act but that we're still leaving on the 31st.
So he either gets a deal, breaks the law, or has a loophole.
We're discussing, if it is the latter, how that could possibly happen.
So on current evidence, I would suggest that he doesn't have a super legal mind on the staff who can circumvent the Benn Act. There's no loop-hole, and certainly not one the current inner circle can circumvent.
There's a reason Angie Merkle has started calling it a treaty, and not a deal, btw.
So on current evidence, I would suggest that he doesn't have a super legal mind on the staff who can circumvent the Benn Act. There's no loop-hole, and certainly not one the current inner circle can circumvent.
There's a reason Angie Merkle has started calling it a treaty, and not a deal, btw.
Indeed, so if you're correct and this is "GE posturing", then he has no choice but to break the law on the 19th October, because otherwise he's politically dead as soon as he sends that extension request.
That's the part of the circle I can't square. So I'm looking for the loophole. Because if there isn't one, he resigns 19 October rather than send the request for an extension, or he breaks the law and is sacked in a no confidence vote. Either way, he doesn't contest the next election - or if he meekly sends the request and does contest an election, Farage murders him from one end with the Brexit Party and the 'remain alliance' massacre him from the other side and the Tories are electorally obliterated and he's sacked after losing a GE anyway.
I'm in love with Gina Miller. Incredible woman. Watching her put those cerebrally challenged gammons in the Question Time audience in their place was very sexy.
There's no need for the opposition to do anything about Johnson until then. He's checkmated - that's why he's yelling and goading, begging for no confidence or a GE, because his strategy is completely shot.
If he doesn't send the letter on 19 October, then you get the no confidence vote, which will certainly pass, and parliament takes the executive role, sends the request for an extension, gets it, then calls for an election.
Agree about the date but thinking more and more about it, he is 100% not asking for that extension as it makes him look a fool, but more importantly, costs his backers billions of pounds. I honestly think he would rather risk being found in contempt than ask for the extension.
So on current evidence, I would suggest that he doesn't have a super legal mind on the staff who can circumvent the Benn Act. There's no loop-hole, and certainly not one the current inner circle can circumvent.
There's a reason Angie Merkle has started calling it a treaty, and not a deal, btw.
I had read a possible flaw. Johnson, if he wants to avoid to requesting an extension from the EU, under s.1 of the Benn Act, Parliament must approve a Withdrawal Agreement. If they do, on or before the 19 October, then the requirement to request an extension is removed.
However, the provisions of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 require further preconditions, beyond approval by the Commons, before the Withdrawal Agreement can take effect and prevent a No Deal.
The preconditions are set out in section 13(1) of the EUWA 2018 and include the passing of a further Act implementing the Withdrawal Agreement.
So: If Parliament approves the WA but those "Further Obligations" are not met before 31 October, then the Benn Act would not require Johnson to request an extension from the EU and ultimately we could leave with No Deal.
So they really shouldn't do anything; approval of a deal, VONC or GE, before the 19th October.
Indeed, so if you're correct and this is "GE posturing", then he has no choice but to break the law on the 19th October, because otherwise he's politically dead as soon as he sends that extension request.
That's the part of the circle I can't square. So I'm looking for the loophole. Because if there isn't one, he resigns 19 October rather than send the request for an extension, or he breaks the law and is sacked in a no confidence vote. Either way, he doesn't contest the next election - or if he meekly sends the request and does contest an election, Farage murders him from one end with the Brexit Party and the 'remain alliance' massacre him from the other side and the Tories are electorally obliterated and he's sacked after losing a GE anyway.
He'll be looking for any way to save face and circumvent having to request an extension. I expect Cummings will be advising Trump style executive powers, even though they aren't intended for this and it would be illegal*/unlawful.
I expect within the month we'll have the usual suspects stating that 'despite Brexit going swimmingly' and talk of "emergency" being Project Fear and 'nothing to worry about' convincing themselves and others, that s.20 + 21 of the Civil Contingencies Act 2004 applies and we need to prevent an emergency.
He'll be looking for any way to save face and circumvent having to request an extension. I expect Cummings will be advising Trump style executive powers, even though they aren't intended for this and it would be illegal*/unlawful.
I expect within the month we'll have the usual suspects stating that 'despite Brexit going swimmingly' and talk of "emergency" being Project Fear and 'nothing to worry about' convincing themselves and others, that s.20 + 21 of the Civil Contingencies Act 2004 applies and we need to prevent an emergency.
The incident would have to have happened before emergency powers could be applied for. BCP documents are already live and being updated now for preparedness, but I don’t think the government would apply for powers for something that hasn’t happened.
I see Parliament has voted to forbid a 3-day recess for the Tory conference (after incidentally, Cummings had instructed the Tories to upstage the LD and Labour conferences in any way possible). What goes around...
The incident would have to have happened before emergency powers could be applied for. BCP documents are already live and being updated now for preparedness, but I don’t think the government would apply for powers for something that hasn’t happened.
If it allowed them the chance to undermine the necessity to comply with the Benn Act?
You can apply for powers in the event of an emergency about to occur:
S21(2) The first condition is that an emergency has occurred, is occurring or is about to occur.
There clearly isn't, and it in no way would satisfy s22 or 23 of the CCA 2004. But, the strategy would be to, do or die, deliver Brexit by 31st October...an Order in Council can be made to the queen, who presumably would comply with any order as she has already demonstrated. So the narrative, when it's inevitably stopped, is again that the 'elites' what to frustrate Brexit. The times is running headlines today about 'expect riots', which I expect is being used as primer.
