Current Affairs EU In or Out

[orchard]

I have read about this strange phenomenon.

As you know, a lot of English people in the Welsh border regions have moved to live just inside Wales over the years.

Plus a lot of English retirees now live in Welsh properties they bought back in the 20th and which fuelled a lot of resentment amongst Walians as the time and contributed greatly to the rise of Welsh nationalism and the rise of Plaid.

Anyway....this report concluded that the overall Welsh vote was skewered toward NO by English people living in Wales.

And that among actual Welsh people the majority voted Remain.

Monmouthshire's full of English and voted remain (at least the part i lived in). It was the poor in the Valley's / farmers / retired English (that you mentioned) that provided the large chunk of leave votes imo.

 

[tsubaki]

Nah, no 2nd Refferendum,
Parliament instigated the first one.
A 2nd is against the spirit of democracy - you don't have another vote because you don't like the result
The Refferendum was none binding.
Parliament is and was the problem
They must front up and fix it one of two ways
1) brexit
or
2) vote, either in Parliament now, or after a GE, where one or more parties nail their return to the status quo, democratically to pull the whole deal.

(1) is why I think there is such a reluctance to let Corbyn perform even a caretaker role; the Lib Dems, SNP and rest know that if he did what Labour policy is (ie: negotiate some form of customs union which is almost identical to the customs union of the EU), the EU would probably accept it, so would the public here, so would Parliament (either directly or via a second ref) and there wouldn't be any immediate financial disaster of the kind that no deal would bring about.

They'd be left with him having "solved" Brexit, the world not having ended and he'd probably win the election he would then be able to call by a landslide.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I don't really see what's contentious about May's deal tbh. It's a withdrawal arrangement that basically says we have a transition period whereby we still contribute to the EU budget and ensure both sets of citizen's rights are protected during that period, and have a backstop insurance policy to ensure that the Good Friday Agreement is a priority during that transition period.

It doesn't touch on the future relationship whatsoever, so if that withdrawal agreement is so contentious then good luck trying to secure any kind of future relationship with the EU that meets any Brexiters approval.

I've backed it from the outset Bruce and have probably been the only person on here to do so. But how can anybody possibly call it a good deal yet when we don't know what the future relationship will look like?

I'm actually surprised by your post as the political declaration specifically calls for an end to freedom of movement.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

Nah, no 2nd Refferendum,
Parliament instigated the first one.
A 2nd is against the spirit of democracy - you don't have another vote because you don't like the result
The Refferendum was none binding.
Parliament is and was the problem
They must front up and fix it one of two ways
1) brexit
or
2) vote, either in Parliament now, or after a GE, where one or more parties nail their return to the status quo, democratically to pull the whole deal.

Don't get me wrong mate, I totally agree with you. I voted remain, and IMO we should stick with the original result because I believe in democracy (and as I said above, I wish MPs did as well) and the thought of another referendum galls me, but there just doesn't look like any way out because we're in the hands of a Parliament full of total bellends who have agenda's, and a Brussel's who don't need to compromise because of all the in - fighting in this country.

The thing is I can see this dragging on for years and years, with extension after extension, and the final outcome being we actually revoke and stay in, which would be a sad day for democracy.

 

[Barnfred 55]

In terms of helping the situation though, what will it achieve? If you want to make it simpler, imagine your Tories win an election, what will that do to the situation (if we assume that no deal is off the table by that point)?

If the Tories get in with a majority, or a combined majority with Brexit, can they just not pass a new bill overriding it.? Or am I missing something. All laws can be changed can't they, provided there's a majority for it?

 

[summerisle]

We need a poll.

 

[degsy]

Don't get me wrong mate, I totally agree with you. I voted remain, and IMO we should stick with the original result because I believe in democracy (and as I said above, I wish MPs did as well) and the thought of another referendum galls me, but there just doesn't look like any way out because we're in the hands of a Parliament full of total bellends who have agenda's, and Brussel's who don't need to compromise because of all the in - fighting.

The thing is I can see this dragging on for years and years, with extension after extension, and the final outcome being we actually revoke and stay in, which would be a sad day for democracy.

Revoke soon...maybe even before Christmas, or revoke later are the front runners, with an actual brexit a long way third

 

[The binman chronicles]

If the Tories get in with a majority, or a combined majority with Brexit, can they just not pass a new bill overriding it.? Or am I missing something. All laws can be changed can't they, provided there's a majority for it?

They can but that is IF the tories get a majority. They will lose 13 seats in Scotland alone, so that is a swing of 26 straightaway, nothing shouts they are going to get a majority.

 

[Barnfred 55]

They can but that is IF the tories get a majority. They will lose 13 seats in Scotland alone, so that is a swing of 26 straightaway, nothing shouts they are going to get a majority.

I haven't got a clue which way a GE will go mate, and I don't take much notice of Polls either as they didn't see either the referendum vote or Labours fantastic showing at the 2017 elections.

I was just questioning Bruce's post that even if the Tories got in, they couldn't do anything about a no deal Brexit.

 

[The binman chronicles]

I haven't got a clue which way a GE will go mate, and I don't take much notice of Polls either as they didn't see either the referendum vote or Labours fantastic showing at the 2017 elections.

I was just questioning Bruce's post that even if the Tories got in, they couldn't do anything about a no deal Brexit.

But that is Bruce's point, it is highly doubtful they will have the majority afterwards. Will the DUP sign up for another coalition championing a no deal? Not likely. They will lose the Tory seats in Scotland due to Boris being in charge and no RD as the head of the party north of the border. To be 36 down already with a decisive leader wanting a hard brexit isn't going to get the numbers.

 

[Barnfred 55]

But that is Bruce's point, it is highly doubtful they will have the majority afterwards. Will the DUP sign up for another coalition championing a no deal? Not likely. They will lose the Tory seats in Scotland due to Boris being in charge and no RD as the head of the party north of the border. To be 36 down already with a decisive leader wanting a hard brexit isn't going to get the numbers.

I agree, but I didn't think that's what Bruce was saying.

 

[The binman chronicles]

I agree, but I didn't think that's what Bruce was saying.

We'll wait for the lycra clad crimestopper to appear to let us know what he meant.

 

[Khalekan]

In fact, about 17.

But that is Bruce's point, it is highly doubtful they will have the majority afterwards. Will the DUP sign up for another coalition championing a no deal? Not likely. They will lose the Tory seats in Scotland due to Boris being in charge and no RD as the head of the party north of the border. To be 36 down already with a decisive leader wanting a hard brexit isn't going to get the numbers.

The DUP won’t have as much an influence in the new parliament.

They will definitely lose one seat in South Belfast to the SDLP........it will be a photo finish in North Belfast between them and Sinn Fein and I fancy SF.....and Naomi Long is quite capable of causing an upset and win for Alliance in East Belfast.

Add to that Eastwood is nailed on to take Derry from Sinn Fein for SDLP.....and SDLP are well placed to oust Sinn Fein in South Down.

So Northern Ireland will not be so badly under represented this time round.....and that will be to the Tory’s disadvantage.

 

[tsubaki]

DFLA kicked off in Parliament Square earlier, cheered on by the usual loons on Twitter calling for a civil war to restore order.

 

[thirdmantackle]

We need a poll.

In mediaeval times...
Shot with what?
A trebuchet?