Current Affairs EU In or Out

[davek]

Labour are over the place on Brexit they are stalling as they cannot agree a party line - as for this proroguing of parliment - you do realise its extend only 4 days extra as the main parties are having the party conferences.......4 days for them to spit their dummies out FGS ists like kids in the playground we need a rethink on how all MPs serve us ......

I can only tell you that, come the election, the LP will have a clear line on Brexit. My guess is that it'll be to hold a 2nd referendum and nail their colours to the mast of backing Remain - which is their establiushed 1st referendum position. They can argue consistency from doing that. That way would also build a platform for non-aggression pacts in the elections with the Lib Dems and SNP...and also the way to move smoothly into a Coalition Government with those parties post election.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Fair enough. To project things out further though, and @Joey66, feel free to interject in response to my original question, lets speculate that the polls are right and no party gets anything close to a majority, how has that helped clarify matters? It just seems to be repeating 2017 again in the hope that a crushing consensus will emerge in what is still a very divided country.

If a party with a clear manifesto pledge to remain, or have a second referendum etc win a majority then that's exactly what should happen. We vote for a reason.

But we need clear choice in this election and no vagueness from parties so they can't just make it up as they go along. That's been both the tory and labour positions.

 

[Old Blue 2]

I'm not sure what I'm looking forward to more to be honest, @Old Blue 2 's song to mark the sun coming up or Johnson lolling about in a ditch.

Oh I can post any number of beautiful songs, Brucie...

 

[Joey66]

Realistically he's much more likely to just resign and try force an election that way

He can't resign as they have numbers to form a coalition.......but the liberals will not want Corbyn as leader - getting back to my point - school children in the playground.......

 

[Joey66]

I can only tell you that, come the election, the LP will have a clear line on Brexit. My guess is that it'll be to hold a 2nd referendum and nail their colours to the mast of backing Remain - which is their establiushed 1st referendum position. They can argue consistency from doing that. That way would also build a platform for non-aggression pacts in the elections with the Lib Dems and SNP...and also the way to move smoothly into a Coalition Government with those parties post election.

BBC Question Time: Angry audience member stuns panel

A BBC Question Time audience member made an astonishing outburst at the panel and MPs for not delivering Brexit.

www.express.co.uk

 

[Joey66]

I can only tell you that, come the election, the LP will have a clear line on Brexit. My guess is that it'll be to hold a 2nd referendum and nail their colours to the mast of backing Remain - which is their establiushed 1st referendum position. They can argue consistency from doing that. That way would also build a platform for non-aggression pacts in the elections with the Lib Dems and SNP...and also the way to move smoothly into a Coalition Government with those parties post election.

Yes the Labour's policy on Brexit is as clear as -

 

[The binman chronicles]

Stop being stubborn Bruce and answer the question GE or not this is what the remainers have been begging for?.........

I can only vouch for myself, but I never wanted a GE, I don't think Parliament will look much different afterwards and therefore it does little to solve the paralysis.

Brexit needs to be sorted in a different way to then kill off the Brexit type parties that take votes away from the others and then there might be a chance for a majority government or a stable coalition.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Stop being stubborn Bruce and answer the question GE or not this is what the remainers have been begging for?.........

I answered your question Joe. I don't know what on earth a general election would do to clarify matters. I asked 'you' how you think it will do, and you've just waffled about democracy so I'm still none the wiser.

 

[Old Blue 2]

I can only tell you that, come the election, the LP will have a clear line on Brexit. My guess is that it'll be to hold a 2nd referendum and nail their colours to the mast of backing Remain - which is their establiushed 1st referendum position.

Should they do that, Dave, I honestly think they will get slaughtered in a GE. I don't like saying that, as I have always voted Labour, but there will be a lot of Labour voters, I believe, who will feel betrayed by that stance by the LP, and will not bother to vote. I can see the LP handing the next Parliamentary term to the Tories, which is exactly what I don't want to happen, but I feel the LP will royally screw things up by adopting the stance you outline aboe.

 

[tsubaki]

Yep. Would he go that far though? Also is Corbyn then obliged to go to the queen to try and form a government or could we end up with no PM at all!

Corbyn would be the head of the largest party that isn't the Tories, so yes he would probably be asked. Whether he would be able to win the first vote expressing confidence is another matter.

We would then be left with the Lib Dems, ex-Tories, ex-TIG and SNP having to show how determined they were to actually deal with Brexit (as opposed to boosting their own political chances); they'd probably refuse to support any "Corbyn regime" but would no doubt end up backing some hypothetical non-Corbyn regime, which Corbyn would effectively control because he has 70% of the MPs (and even the 20-30 MPs around him would have a veto because of the small scale of the "government" vote0.
Either way, it would probably work out ok for Labour - if Corbyn was PM, the fact the country didn't immediately catch fire and women weren't immediately forced to wear a combination of Mao jacket and burka would detoxify a lot of what the press has spent nearly five years uttering; if he wasn't PM but still supported someone else to help deal with this crisis, then the hypocrisy and utter self-interest of Swinson et al would be even more evident than it already is.

 

[Joey66]

I can only vouch for myself, but I never wanted a GE, I don't think Parliament will look much different afterwards and therefore it does little to solve the paralysis.

Brexit needs to be sorted in a different way to then kill off the Brexit type parties that take votes away from the others and then there might be a chance for a majority government or a stable coalition.

If it needs sorting why take no deal off the table?
If I dad a Trade union official representing me I would want every piece of armour he could defend me with my employer to get a deal - anyway that's been made law now so why not a GE?

 

[thirdmantackle]

Coalition of Labour and Lib Dems would be a possibility

 

[Joey66]

I answered your question Joe. I don't know what on earth a general election would do to clarify matters. I asked 'you' how you think it will do, and you've just waffled about democracy so I'm still none the wiser.

A GE in a now more than hung parliment is a necessity Bruce......

 

[Joey66]

Coalition of Labour and Lib Dems would be a possibility

without Corbyn as the leader as the Lib Dems don't want him.......

 

[Bruce Wayne]

If a party with a clear manifesto pledge to remain, or have a second referendum etc win a majority then that's exactly what should happen. We vote for a reason.

But we need clear choice in this election and no vagueness from parties so they can't just make it up as they go along. That's been both the tory and labour positions.

That's kind of my point though. The polls at the moment show no party with anything close to a majority, so how will an election provide any clarity on the matter? Indeed, one might argue, with a dutiful nod to irony, that we already had this in 2017 and that clearly failed to clarify or help matters either.

That's the problem, as the only options we have that only Britain in isolation can do are scrapping the whole thing or leaving with no deal. Everything else requires the EU's agreement, which unless you're campaigning to go with the withdrawal agreement already agreed, then it's crazy as you're campaigning to do things you have no control over.