Current Affairs EU In or Out

[random]

Absolute nonsense. You seem to be suggesting that countries that use PR aren't truly democratic whereas the opposite is true.

Another example of the a la carte democracy so favoured by Leavers - use whatever version that suits at the time and claim only your interpretation can be correct. It is arrogant rubbish.

and yet 68% of the voting public rejected an alternative to fptp for the UK

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum

 

[RichardP]

Do we take many refugees from Europe?

Or are you making a general point about your dislike of foreigners?

You are still choosing not to see the point aren't you.

My views on anyone (including you) are not determined by race, creed or colour. They are determined by their behaviour. So, please don't presume that I dislike foreigners. I don't. That is you trying to shape an inaccurate, agenda driven narrative which is typical of your previous posts and does nothing for you or your position. I do however, have an aversion to certain behaviour traits - such as a sense of entitlement, abuse of host country welfare, law andorder and an unwillingness or inability to engage in debate with an open mind and respect for someone with a point of view different to your own.

You learn much more by listening rather than talking and you arenot persuading anyone of anything with the current attitude. Quite the contrary in fact.

 

[RichardP]

You haven't really hit a nerve @RichardP. You do, however, have a tendency to hypocrisy when advising people about democracy. Do you have any idea how Ireland was split up? The vote preceding it? I doubt it. The island of Ireland was split despite the majority of voters wanting a free and united Ireland. So, in answer to your question, I'd go back to Irish independence. I would ask the Irish people as a whole to decide what they want. This would disregard the artificial British separation and following that result I would take on the Brexit question. It is the minority DUP bigots that May and Johnson are kowtowing to and they would be exposed to true democracy.
If you 'accept the present situation as a datum' are you accepting the illegal Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory? The Turks in TRNC? The Russians in Ukraine? See? Not that easy is it?
I call ignorance of the abuse of democracy pathetic. I still do. If you want to try the cap on and it fits, by all means wear it.

You haven't listened to, or considered, a single word that doesn't fit with your blinkered view have you.

That is what is pathetic.

 

[Jebus_lives]

You are still choosing not to see the point aren't you.

My views on anyone (including you) are not determined by race, creed or colour. They are determined by their behaviour. So, please don't presume that I dislike foreigners. I don't. That is you trying to shape an inaccurate, agenda driven narrative which is typical of your previous posts and does nothing for you or your position. I do however, have an aversion to certain behaviour traits - such as a sense of entitlement, abuse of host country welfare, law andorder and an unwillingness or inability to engage in debate with an open mind and respect for someone with a point of view different to your own.

You learn much more by listening rather than talking and you arenot persuading anyone of anything with the current attitude. Quite the contrary in fact.

Your entire premise was that you voted for Brexit because you don't like economic migrants claiming to be refugees, you think foreigners are a drain on the welfare system and create problems related to law and order - I believe the phrase 'wait until Ireland has a million immigrants and law and order breaks down'.

I think your issue here is that people are listening to what you are saying and find it a bit unsavoury.

Oh and just wondering if you know how many refugees we take from the EU?

 

[RichardP]

Some of my best friends are foreign. Some of them are even Irish lol

Also Tarnishing refugees as economic migrants has nothing to do with your world knowledge and experience and has everything to do with your prejudices and reading material.

Again, you choose to misinterpret what you read.

I am not calling all refugees economic migrants. But, once a refugee is free of whatever is oppressing them there is no need to try to travel another thousand miles or so purely for the benefit of living in a country that is perceived as having better welfare benefits than wherever they were first safe. As soon as they do that, they are no longer refugees. They are economic migrants.

Thank you for acknowledging my world experience. I have seen many different systems of government over the years from around the world and the EU style is destined to fail. Merkel is now tacitly even admitting it.

 

[RichardP]

He can't avoid using that term because it's who he is and it comes naturally to him when he's in full on ranting diatribe mode. 'Red Indian', using terms like 'to be sure' when talking about the Irish (I'll bet his mates in the pub all laugh when he does the accent).

I notice we've also now had a "I can't be racist, I have xxxxx friends" thrown in to the mix.

There's little point engaging, I enjoy debating politics, but a debate is ultimately for the benefit of convincing third parties, not changing the mind of the other person. And any third parties who read through RichardP's racist meanderings and decide he's in the right are beyond helping.

There are still some rational Leave voters (though after the 3 years they are bloody rare now), but he's definitely not one of them, I expect he's been anti-EU for a very long time, probably voted BNP a few times back in the day.

Wrong on all counts but I don't think you are willing or able to see it.

 

[roydo]

purely for the benefit of living in a country that is perceived as having better welfare benefits than wherever they were first safe. As soon as they do that, they are no longer refugees. They are economic migrants.

An what role does the EU have in who decides who and what a migrant, economic or otherwise, gets from the UK?

 

[RichardP]

Perfectly appropriate, non insult intended term. One of the biggest problems with the world at the moment is the passive aggressive, poliitically correct liberal tree huggers who are spring loaded to the 'offended' position.

Never has the term 'snowflake' been more apt than on some of the posters here. Their ability to manufacture 'offence' whete non was intended is quite incredible.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Again, you choose to misinterpret what you read.

I am not calling all refugees economic migrants. But, once a refugee is free of whatever is oppressing them there is no need to try to travel another thousand miles or so purely for the benefit of living in a country that is perceived as having better welfare benefits than wherever they were first safe. As soon as they do that, they are no longer refugees. They are economic migrants.

Thank you for acknowledging my world experience. I have seen many different systems of government over the years from around the world and the EU style is destined to fail. Merkel is now tacitly even admitting it.

Right out if the UKIP refugee handbook this.
It seems to largely stem from border crossings in France and was then repeated during the Syrian Refugee Crisis.

Firstly, you have no way of knowing, until sometime makes a claim for asylum, if they are an asylum seeker or not. Immigration officials make that assessment.

There is no law which states that you have to settle in the first country you arrive in, there isn't even law which states you have to settle in the first 'safe' country you arrive in. However, EU law does, in some instances require that they register in the first member country they arrive in https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/en/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32013R0604#d1e1042-31-1

Just for clarity, the UK refugee population is around 1% of the 26m refugees across the world.

 

[RichardP]

Your entire premise was that you voted for Brexit because you don't like economic migrants claiming to be refugees, you think foreigners are a drain on the welfare system and create problems related to law and order - I believe the phrase 'wait until Ireland has a million immigrants and law and order breaks down'.

I think your issue here is that people are listening to what you are saying and find it a bit unsavoury.

Oh and just wondering if you know how many refugees we take from the EU?

No, that is not what I said nor what I meant and you really do have the intelligence to onow that. You are cherry picking to try to present an inaccurate picture - just like others in your camp.

I have never said that mymain reason for voted brexit is because I don't like migrants.

My main reason for voting brexit is to extract ourselves from EU so that we can control our own laws, currency, justice, and yes, borders. But immigration is a small (but yes, important part) of the whole. It is not, by any means, the sole reason. And I am not against immigration. It just needs to be controlled and organised better and more fairly.

Any country that remains in EU is now facing uncontrolled immigration issues. You only have to look at how that has affected, and is still affecting countries such as Greece, Italy and others to see that. To ignore the problem is very short sighted and just storing up problems for the future.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Perfectly appropriate, non insult intended term. One of the biggest problems with the world at the moment is the passive aggressive, poliitically correct liberal tree huggers who are spring loaded to the 'offended' position.

Never has the term 'snowflake' been more apt than on some of the posters here. Their ability to manufacture 'offence' whete non was intended is quite incredible.

Your ability to manufacture an argument without any evidence to back up your claims is quite incredible.

 

[roydo]

so that we can control our own laws, currency, justice, and yes, borders.

But we already can.

 

[Jebus_lives]

No, that is not what I said nor what I meant and you really do have the intelligence to onow that. You are cherry picking to try to present an inaccurate picture - just like others in your camp.

I have never said that mymain reason for voted brexit is because I don't like migrants.

My main reason for voting brexit is to extract ourselves from EU so that we can control our own laws, currency, justice, and yes, borders. But immigration is a small (but yes, important part) of the whole. It is not, by any means, the sole reason. And I am not against immigration. It just needs to be controlled and organised better and more fairly.

Any country that remains in EU is now facing uncontrolled immigration issues. You only have to look at how that has affected, and is still affecting countries such as Greece, Italy and others to see that. To ignore the problem is very short sighted and just storing up problems for the future.

We do control our own currency.
We do control our own laws.
We do control our own borders.

 

[roydo]

But we already can.

We do control our own currency.
We do control our own laws.
We do control our own borders.

These posts never get a response.

 

[Jebus_lives]

These posts never get a response.

No. Nothing with detail ever does.