Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Jebus_lives]

No, I'm not going to read back 3602 pages. All that would do, is show that nobody posting on here has changed their mind.

If you don't know of just one good reason for Brexit, that's because you don't want to hear it.

You didn't ask if people had changed their mind, you asked for examples of racism.

 

[Mr. White]

You didn't ask if people had changed their mind, you asked for examples of racism.

And you haven't provided an example.

 

[Jebus_lives]

And you haven't provided an example.

I have

 

[Kurt.]

True racism isn't tolerated on here. And rightly so.

So, if the mods don't ban a poster for making a pro-leave argument, then they can't really be racist, can they? On here, 'racist', it's usually just a lazy retort to shut down debate.

The ironically named Mr. White ladies and gentlemen

 

[RichardP]

Read back the full 3602 pages and judge for yourself. Still haven't heard one good reason for brexit other than immigration. Anything else is pie in the sky and even immigration will continue along the same lines. Just because they no longer automatically have the right to work here doesn't mean they can't get working visas if there is employment not being taken by Brits.

Brexit is not about stopping immigration. It is about managing it sensibly. One set of rules for the entire world rather than the current discriminatory set up in favour of EU citizens and being told by EU how many other immigrants we must accept.

That has to stop. I have worked overseas for 23 years now and in each of the 3 countries I have worked I have first had to get a job that could not be done by a local and my residency visa was tied to my employment. Lose the job equals leave the country at not much notice.

Moreover, I have to provide PHI for myself and my family so as not to be a welfare drain on the host country. This system is practiced by many, many countries outside of the EU echo chamber and it works well. Also, any serious law breaking equals loss of job and a prison sentence, smartly followed by deportation.

A points system is the way to go. It attracts the brightest and the best and improves society without any worries over law and order or welfare costs.

 

[RichardP]

You know Ireland is in the EU as well don't you?

So is/was UK

 

[RichardP]

We will be out of the EU. What you seem to be describing is a form of Brexit that has stipulations and caveats to leaving - which apparently nobody (or everybody depending upon what narrative you are trying to weave) voted for.

It's almost like you're trying to suggest that not everybody voted for the same thing...

We voted for what the PM told us would happen if we voted Leave. Out of the Customs Union being one of the benefits. May's WA kept us shackled to EU via a Customs Union with no time limit or unilateral means of exit. It therefore was not what Cameron assured us would happen if we voted Leave. That is what we want, what Cameron assured us would happen if we voted Leave. No more, no less.

 

[RichardP]

You know the EU is separate to the customs union, right?
You know the referendum wasn’t about the customs union?
Is it just certain immigrants you have a problem with because I presume the Italian, French, Portuguese, Irish, Danish, Nigerian, Ivorian, Brazilian, Colombians playing for Everton are ok?

Now you are being silly. Trapped in the Customs Union would tie us to EU rules and regulations and place other limitations on our ability to trade freely. But then, you knew that really didn't you.

 

[RichardP]

You know this democracy that you espouse RichardP? How far back do you want to take it, with particular regard to Ireland? How did your democracy work in the 60s when you let gerrymandering proliferate in favour of pro British voters? That was a major cause of the troubles, not sectarian issues like some of the Leave clowns on here have stated. Or the 1918 vote in Ireland where Sinn Fein won a massive victory, which was disregarded by Britain? How can the likes of you trumpet 'democracy' when you are held in contempt by the disenfranchised and under represented in Ireland, not just the bit you cling on to? There are many definitions of democracy @RichardP, and one of the reasons that these tory loons hate the EU is that they are held to account by European Courts. They can't just impose their will on their subjugated people right now. Yes, your democracy and other Democrat's democracy can vary wildly mate. Pathetic....

I seem to have struck a nerve there haven't I.

Just how far back do you want to go? USA given back to the Red Indians, Australia given back to the Aborigines?

We have to draw a line somewhere from which we then start to move forward. I am not going to disagree with you that many injustices were perpetrated in the past but how far back do you really want to go? I think we have to start by accepting the present situation as a datum on which to move forward.

I think we have to respect the right to self determination. Irrespective of history, people should be allowed to vote for how they wish their country to be run. Insofar as that concerns brexit that really has to be UK as a whole but thereafter if we are to be consistent then we have to allow votes in all home countries to decide if they wish to remain part of the Union. I obviously hope that the Union remains but I would respect the outcome of any legitimate referendum. I just wish others could show the same respect for the brexit referendum.

I don't call that pathetic. I call that mature. But personal insults such as you make which play the man rather than the ball do nothing for your cause and do nothing for yourself either.

 

[RichardP]

Happens so often. Quiz a leave voter as to their reasons and they deflect and avoid before admitting they just don’t like foreigners.

You really haven't got a clue have you.

I am happily married outside of my race, ethnicity and religion. I work happily for a company that employs (at the last count) over 160 different nationalities and we all have to work very closely together, entirely dependent on each other in our safety critical roles.

I have operated in a similar environment in 3 different countries for over 23 years commercially and have made lifelong friends from more nationalities and religions than I care to name. Even the Irish!

So, its not that I dont like foreigners. What I dont like are people that cause trouble. What I dont like are people that claim to be refugees but are, in fact, economic migrants.

But what disgusts me more than anything is prejudiced idiots such as yourself who have got no clue about the subject matter, are spring loaded to the aggressive position when someone has a different opinion to your own, cannot countenance the possibility of being wrong and seek to attack the individual rather than debate the issue.

Perhaps if you took a pace back and looked at the bigger picture rather than just listen to the sound bites in the Remain echo chamber which you obviously inhabit, you might have a better grasp of how the rest of the world works and then be able to contribute something worthwhile to the debate. Until you can do that you are just wasting bandwidth and time.

 

[Walken]

I seem to have struck a nerve there haven't I.

Just how far back do you want to go? USA given back to the Red Indians, Australia given back to the Aborigines?

We have to draw a line somewhere from which we then start to move forward. I am not going to disagree with you that many injustices were perpetrated in the past but how far back do you really want to go? I think we have to start by accepting the present situation as a datum on which to move forward.

I think we have to respect the right to self determination. Irrespective of history, people should be allowed to vote for how they wish their country to be run. Insofar as that concerns brexit that really has to be UK as a whole but thereafter if we are to be consistent then we have to allow votes in all home countries to decide if they wish to remain part of the Union. I obviously hope that the Union remains but I would respect the outcome of any legitimate referendum. I just wish others could show the same respect for the brexit referendum.

I don't call that pathetic. I call that mature. But personal insults such as you make which play the man rather than the ball do nothing for your cause and do nothing for yourself either.

Maybe avoiding the term 'red indian' would aid your argument

 

[Xizor]

Maybe avoiding the term 'red indian' would aid your argument

He can't avoid using that term because it's who he is and it comes naturally to him when he's in full on ranting diatribe mode. 'Red Indian', using terms like 'to be sure' when talking about the Irish (I'll bet his mates in the pub all laugh when he does the accent).

I notice we've also now had a "I can't be racist, I have xxxxx friends" thrown in to the mix.

There's little point engaging, I enjoy debating politics, but a debate is ultimately for the benefit of convincing third parties, not changing the mind of the other person. And any third parties who read through RichardP's racist meanderings and decide he's in the right are beyond helping.

There are still some rational Leave voters (though after the 3 years they are bloody rare now), but he's definitely not one of them, I expect he's been anti-EU for a very long time, probably voted BNP a few times back in the day.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Brexit is not about stopping immigration. It is about managing it sensibly. One set of rules for the entire world rather than the current discriminatory set up in favour of EU citizens and being told by EU how many other immigrants we must accept.

That has to stop. I have worked overseas for 23 years now and in each of the 3 countries I have worked I have first had to get a job that could not be done by a local and my residency visa was tied to my employment. Lose the job equals leave the country at not much notice.

Moreover, I have to provide PHI for myself and my family so as not to be a welfare drain on the host country. This system is practiced by many, many countries outside of the EU echo chamber and it works well. Also, any serious law breaking equals loss of job and a prison sentence, smartly followed by deportation.

A points system is the way to go. It attracts the brightest and the best and improves society without any worries over law and order or welfare costs.

I suggest you read up on the full laws of freedom of movement. Almost everything you have stated there is the same inside the EU when working in another country. At the moment our politicians have chosen not to use these laws to the full. If you were to work in Belgium for instance and lose your job you would be swiftly coming back too.

Think there are also EU citizens that are serving prison sentences in the UK who will be deported back after release, so again not sure what your angle is other than you like the Daily Mail.

 

[Jebus_lives]

So is/was UK

Still is.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

You really haven't got a clue have you.

I am happily married outside of my race, ethnicity and religion. I work happily for a company that employs (at the last count) over 160 different nationalities and we all have to work very closely together, entirely dependent on each other in our safety critical roles.

I have operated in a similar environment in 3 different countries for over 23 years commercially and have made lifelong friends from more nationalities and religions than I care to name. Even the Irish!

So, its not that I dont like foreigners. What I dont like are people that cause trouble. What I dont like are people that claim to be refugees but are, in fact, economic migrants.

But what disgusts me more than anything is prejudiced idiots such as yourself who have got no clue about the subject matter, are spring loaded to the aggressive position when someone has a different opinion to your own, cannot countenance the possibility of being wrong and seek to attack the individual rather than debate the issue.

Perhaps if you took a pace back and looked at the bigger picture rather than just listen to the sound bites in the Remain echo chamber which you obviously inhabit, you might have a better grasp of how the rest of the world works and then be able to contribute something worthwhile to the debate. Until you can do that you are just wasting bandwidth and time.

Some of my best friends are foreign. Some of them are even Irish lol

Also Tarnishing refugees as economic migrants has nothing to do with your world knowledge and experience and has everything to do with your prejudices and reading material.